It's Time for the GOAT Debate

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Lockhart

Here’s my counter-point to this (hear me out):

Jason, Real Talk, and those guys from yester year battled in a time period where there were 200+ active members but about 10-15 of them were what you’d consider good at a given time. The greats from this era are battling in 15-20 people fields where 3-5 are good, and more often than not it’s the same people over and over. If anything, I’d give MORE credit to the Bleus, Rows, Shodans, Edgeworths, and Seuls of the site who dominated and won multiple titles in a shallower yet stronger talent pool where they had to battle the same people over and over and maintain that level of dominance to win over a Real Talk or a Jason who battled in a more watered-down era in terms of competition. It is much tougher to NOT LOSE to against someone you battle 6-7 times (see: Me vs Rai) than it is to not lose to someone you’ve only battled 2-3 times.

I see your point, but I don't necessarily agree. Let's use an NBA analogy. Bill Russell won 11 championships, which is more NBA titles than MJ, Kobe, or whoever else is in the GOAT debate....but he also played at a time when there were only 10 NBA teams as opposed to now when there's 30. Less competition actually made it easier to keep beating the same guys over and over again. If someone wins 11 championships in TODAY'S NBA, that would hold a little more weight in my eyes. You can argue that we have a stronger talent pool in today's NBA or on today's Letsbeef, but newer guys benefit from what older guys have done well as well as mistakes older guys have made...in a way that older guys couldn't have benefitted from newer guys. You get what I'm saying? Doing a crossover is routine now, and whoever is doing crossovers today benefits from having watched Iverson do it, but when Iverson did it, it was original and he didn't have the same benefit of someone else showing him how to do it. It's the same thing with punchlines, syntax and structure...etc. We'd have to curve the argument that guys are better battlers today and we have a generally stronger talent pool today...with the fact that ...a lot of the techniques we use today...Real Talk, Illimit, Daddio, Unkown Artist and those guys did it first and we benefit from them in a way they couldn't have benefitted from us.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Lockhart

Here’s my counter-point to this (hear me out):

Jason, Real Talk, and those guys from yester year battled in a time period where there were 200+ active members but about 10-15 of them were what you’d consider good at a given time. The greats from this era are battling in 15-20 people fields where 3-5 are good, and more often than not it’s the same people over and over. If anything, I’d give MORE credit to the Bleus, Rows, Shodans, Edgeworths, and Seuls of the site who dominated and won multiple titles in a shallower yet stronger talent pool where they had to battle the same people over and over and maintain that level of dominance to win over a Real Talk or a Jason who battled in a more watered-down era in terms of competition. It is much tougher to NOT LOSE to against someone you battle 6-7 times (see: Me vs Rai) than it is to not lose to someone you’ve only battled 2-3 times.

I see your point, but I don't necessarily agree. Let's use an NBA analogy. Bill Russell won 11 championships, which is more NBA titles than MJ, Kobe, or whoever else is in the GOAT debate....but he also played at a time when there were only 10 NBA teams as opposed to now when there's 30. Less competition actually made it easier to keep beating the same guys over and over again. If someone wins 11 championships in TODAY'S NBA, that would hold a little more weight in my eyes. You can argue that we have a stronger talent pool in today's NBA or on today's Letsbeef, but newer guys benefit from what older guys have done well as well as mistakes older guys have made...in a way that older guys couldn't have benefitted from newer guys. You get what I'm saying? Doing a crossover is routine now, and whoever is doing crossovers today benefits from having watched Iverson do it, but when Iverson did it, it was original and he didn't have the same benefit of someone else showing him how to do it. It's the same thing with punchlines, syntax and structure...etc. We'd have to curve the argument that guys are better battlers today and we have a generally stronger talent pool today...with the fact that ...a lot of the techniques we use today...Real Talk, Illimit, Daddio, Unkown Artist and those guys did it first and we benefit from them in a way they couldn't have benefitted from us.