Conversation between EtH and NOBLE

[_Free]

Originally Posted by EtH

Rap goes into the entertainment pile for me.

Are you saying that poetry is not a form of entertainment?

[_Free]

Originally Posted by EtH

Rap goes into the entertainment pile for me.

Are you saying that poetry is not a form of entertainment?

But what is REAL rap? Isn't it ALL an artform by the defender's logic? To me, the basic storytelling, tiny instances of imagery, non subtle metaphors and falseness in rap turns me away from it being "good" poetry.

When I hear someone saying "I'm just telling the stories of the streets, and saying what I see", I always find it to be false bullshit. Really, they are just generically talking about guns, drugs and bitches, but trying to make it seem genuine and intellectual.

I did say to NOBLE that I respect the acting rappers put into their work. Eminem and 2pac put in emotions depending on the piece, and it sets a tone which is something very common in poetry. Em's recent stuff is very false and forced for emotional teenagers, but the way their mood comes off like a performance would put certain characteristics in an artistic light for me.

@_Free, different definition of entertainment. You wouldn't say a poet would be a part of the entertainment industry, while I would say NaS, Vinny Paz and Big L were part of the entertainment industry.

But what is REAL rap? Isn't it ALL an artform by the defender's logic? To me, the basic storytelling, tiny instances of imagery, non subtle metaphors and falseness in rap turns me away from it being "good" poetry.

When I hear someone saying "I'm just telling the stories of the streets, and saying what I see", I always find it to be false bullshit. Really, they are just generically talking about guns, drugs and bitches, but trying to make it seem genuine and intellectual.

I did say to NOBLE that I respect the acting rappers put into their work. Eminem and 2pac put in emotions depending on the piece, and it sets a tone which is something very common in poetry. Em's recent stuff is very false and forced for emotional teenagers, but the way their mood comes off like a performance would put certain characteristics in an artistic light for me.

@_Free, different definition of entertainment. You wouldn't say a poet would be a part of the entertainment industry, while I would say NaS, Vinny Paz and Big L were part of the entertainment industry.

[_Free]

But ti's still entertainment. It doesn't have to be your story for you to tell it neither. Rappers lying in music is bad, saying things like I while not being descriptive. Lupe Fiasco told the story of drug dealers nice cars and such without saying "I". Rap is still poetry it's still a by product of hip hop which is a by product of the harlem R word movement.(Can't remember how to spell it) It's poetry dude just not the form your most fond of.

[_Free]

But ti's still entertainment. It doesn't have to be your story for you to tell it neither. Rappers lying in music is bad, saying things like I while not being descriptive. Lupe Fiasco told the story of drug dealers nice cars and such without saying "I". Rap is still poetry it's still a by product of hip hop which is a by product of the harlem R word movement.(Can't remember how to spell it) It's poetry dude just not the form your most fond of.

[NOBLE]

People can and often do lie in poetry and topicals as well when they write based on an imaginary given topic or personify someone else's experience.

[NOBLE]

People can and often do lie in poetry and topicals as well when they write based on an imaginary given topic or personify someone else's experience.

[_Free]

for the sake of story yeah. but alot of time these rappers claim it as their reality.

[_Free]

for the sake of story yeah. but alot of time these rappers claim it as their reality.

[NOBLE]

^^True. If poetry was as commercialized and marketable as Rap and making up stories was what sells, I can imagine two things: (1) A lot more poets would personify other people's stories for the sake of story, and (2) EtH would consider them part of the Entertainment Industry.

[NOBLE]

^^True. If poetry was as commercialized and marketable as Rap and making up stories was what sells, I can imagine two things: (1) A lot more poets would personify other people's stories for the sake of story, and (2) EtH would consider them part of the Entertainment Industry.

[skinEC~RRR~]

In the 1800's poetry was commercialized, some of our most celebrated poems are written as a 1st person narrative , just like hip hop songs are. But yet they are complete fiction, just like hip hop songs are..the difference is the marketing. Rappers are marketed through the video's and photo shoots as if these songs are telling there life story, when in fact they are telling the stories that apparently the consumer wants to hear. Take Edgar Allen Poe, all his poems read as a narrative, like the writer is telling a story that came directly from his life..rap songs are same...thing is that rappers relish in the assumptions that every word they say is truth and say nothing to lead us to think else. When Poe was asked about his classic "The Raven" He said it was not based on anything he had experienced in his life..and he wrote all his poems very logically and methodically, intending to create a poem that would appeal to both critical and popular tastes. The problem is in this generation, we celebrate the artist, the enigma, we idolize them. Back then they appreciated the work for what it was..pure entertainment..no one was outraged that "Annabelle Lee wasn't really one of edgar's bitches

[skinEC~RRR~]

In the 1800's poetry was commercialized, some of our most celebrated poems are written as a 1st person narrative , just like hip hop songs are. But yet they are complete fiction, just like hip hop songs are..the difference is the marketing. Rappers are marketed through the video's and photo shoots as if these songs are telling there life story, when in fact they are telling the stories that apparently the consumer wants to hear. Take Edgar Allen Poe, all his poems read as a narrative, like the writer is telling a story that came directly from his life..rap songs are same...thing is that rappers relish in the assumptions that every word they say is truth and say nothing to lead us to think else. When Poe was asked about his classic "The Raven" He said it was not based on anything he had experienced in his life..and he wrote all his poems very logically and methodically, intending to create a poem that would appeal to both critical and popular tastes. The problem is in this generation, we celebrate the artist, the enigma, we idolize them. Back then they appreciated the work for what it was..pure entertainment..no one was outraged that "Annabelle Lee wasn't really one of edgar's bitches

[stricc]

personally i've never been a fan of poems that dont rhyme,not saying talent isnt involved, but it gets boring quickly. and what about mos def??? is he not a rapper\poet ?

[stricc]

personally i've never been a fan of poems that dont rhyme,not saying talent isnt involved, but it gets boring quickly. and what about mos def??? is he not a rapper\poet ?

I didn't mean false as in lying about their story, I meant false as in pretending their song about guns and shit was a "tale of the streets". Really they are just uncreative and don't know how to write a proper story. (To Free, NOBLE and Skin).

Agreed Stricc. The rhyme is a HUGE part of it, and it adds the actual challenge in to the mix.

I didn't mean false as in lying about their story, I meant false as in pretending their song about guns and shit was a "tale of the streets". Really they are just uncreative and don't know how to write a proper story. (To Free, NOBLE and Skin).

Agreed Stricc. The rhyme is a HUGE part of it, and it adds the actual challenge in to the mix.

[NOBLE]

I just watched the Don't Flop battle between Arkaic and Illmaculate and at the end, they interviewed Arkaic and asked him what he thinks makes Don'T Flop different from other battle leagues and he said it's the fact that they aren't as Rap based. I don't fully understand what he means by that, but it sounds like the same thing you're saying @EtH. Would you say Don't Flop battlers are more "topical" in their approach to battle Rap?

[NOBLE]

I just watched the Don't Flop battle between Arkaic and Illmaculate and at the end, they interviewed Arkaic and asked him what he thinks makes Don'T Flop different from other battle leagues and he said it's the fact that they aren't as Rap based. I don't fully understand what he means by that, but it sounds like the same thing you're saying @EtH. Would you say Don't Flop battlers are more "topical" in their approach to battle Rap?