Inventions by Black folks

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

I'd have to vehemently disagree Berbers were black. I've studied at Islamic centers and the conquest of North Africa and Europe is quite detailed and historically accurate.

I didn't say Berbers were black. I compared them to Latinos and said they look more black or more Arab depending on which region they are from, and then I pointed out examples of Berber or Tuareg people who phenotypically would be considered black.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

Not to mention there's depictions of ancient Berbers that Egyptians made thousands of years ago showing the 4 types of man. Berbers were white according to Ancient Egyptian accounts.

I am familiar with the wall painting you are probably referring to. The Book of Gates in the tomb of Seti I. However, all the versions showing Caucasian-looking figures are reconstructions. The actual original tomb painting itself is so damaged and with faded colors that the figures could be interpreted to have looked otherwise when they were originally painted. Also, they were depicting a Libyan, not necessarily a Berber. Then, as is the case now, not all Libyans looked the same. North Africa had been invaded by Mediterranean Europeans (Romans) and also Phoenicians, but the Berbers are indigenous to North Africa and didn't come from elsewhere. White people may have been present in ancient North Africa, but they are not indigenous to it and they are not Berbers. Even if the image was meant to depict a Berber from Libya, I've already said "A Tuareg from Burkina Faso looks a lot different than one from Libya." A Berber from Libya looking "white" is not indicative of how all Berbers from other regions look.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

Berbers were darkened by Arab expansion. Also Arabs are Semitic, like Sephardic Jews . Not African. Any Africans claiming to be Arab would be due to Arab expansionism. The Moors were also a Muslim Kingdom. And 100% Muslim.

I don't really like or subscribe to the term "Semitic" for describing people, maybe because it's based on the Bible, which I consider largely a myth. It comes from the sons of Noah (Ham, Shem, and Japhet) who are supposed to be the progenitors of the Hamites (Africans near the Levant--Egyptians, Ethiopians, etc.), Semites, and (no one really knows who Japhet is supposed to be the father of but I've heard people say Caucasian and some say east Asians). It doesn't account for Australian Aborigines or Polynesians, for example. It's how ancient Middle Easterners tried to explain the world around them, and their world was very small because there was so much they were unaware of. Truthfully, most of the people I've met who are self-described Jews, I would consider white...and I don't consider Arabs to be white. So "Semitic" as a term inclusive of both those people (European Jews and Middle Eastern Arabs) is inadequate to me because I consider them distinct. As a caveat, maybe because I'm such a PC Liberal (lol), I respect people's right to identify however they choose to, so it doesn't really matter what I think of the term "Semitic..." or who is white or who is black. If someone identifies as such, I will respect that and address them as such. Race, at the end of the day, is really an arbitrary social convention. What would pass for white or black to me could be different from what would pass as such for you. I'm not interested in forcing labels on anyone and I'd rather let them speak for themselves. All the Tuareg people I've personally met identified as black, if they used such terms, but I'm pretty sure there are also Tuareg people who identify as white. Who am I to tell them any different?

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

The reason, once again why Moors were veiewed as black is simple, because black Moors, recent converts to Islam reconquered parts of Europe when the moderate muslim empire collapsed. I've taken many college courses that dealt with the occupation of Spain. It's a gigantic misconception Moors were black. There were black Moors tho.

If there were black Moors, it isn't a "gigantic" misconception that the Moors were black.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"A marabout (Arabic: مُرابِط‎, translit. murābiṭ, lit. 'one who is attached/garrisoned') is a Muslim religious leader and teacher in West Africa, and (historically) in the Maghreb. The marabout is often a scholar of the Qur'an, or religious teacher.

---------- Post added at 11:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------

[/COLOR]"Moor, in English usage, a Moroccan or, formerly, a member of the Muslim population of what is now Spain and Portugal. Of mixed Arab, Spanish, and Amazigh (Berber) origins, the Moors created the Arab Andalusian civilization and subsequently settled as refugees in North Africa between the 11th and 17th centuries."

---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

"The term "Moors" refers primarily to the Muslim inhabitants of the Maghreb, the Iberian Peninsula, Sicily, and Malta during the Middle Ages. The Moors initially were the Berber autochthones of the Maghreb.[1] The name was later also applied to Arabs.[2][3]

Moors are not a distinct or self-defined people,[4] and the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica observed that "The term 'Moors' has no real ethnological value."[5] Medieval and early modern Europeans variously applied the name to Arabs, North African Berbers, and Muslim Europeans"

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------

The Egyptian Book of Gates is around 3 or 4 thousand years old and depicts Berbers (Libyans) as white. Find an older more reliable source and I'll believe you Berbers were black.

There's only so much one can learn from Wikipedia entries. I have personally studied under Marabout and Sufi sheikhs. I've studied with sheikhs from the Tajani, Qadiri and Naqshabandi orders. The Sufis, like the Marabouts, are often considered heretics in the eyes or orthodox Muslims.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

I'd have to vehemently disagree Berbers were black. I've studied at Islamic centers and the conquest of North Africa and Europe is quite detailed and historically accurate.

I didn't say Berbers were black. I compared them to Latinos and said they look more black or more Arab depending on which region they are from, and then I pointed out examples of Berber or Tuareg people who phenotypically would be considered black.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

Not to mention there's depictions of ancient Berbers that Egyptians made thousands of years ago showing the 4 types of man. Berbers were white according to Ancient Egyptian accounts.

I am familiar with the wall painting you are probably referring to. The Book of Gates in the tomb of Seti I. However, all the versions showing Caucasian-looking figures are reconstructions. The actual original tomb painting itself is so damaged and with faded colors that the figures could be interpreted to have looked otherwise when they were originally painted. Also, they were depicting a Libyan, not necessarily a Berber. Then, as is the case now, not all Libyans looked the same. North Africa had been invaded by Mediterranean Europeans (Romans) and also Phoenicians, but the Berbers are indigenous to North Africa and didn't come from elsewhere. White people may have been present in ancient North Africa, but they are not indigenous to it and they are not Berbers. Even if the image was meant to depict a Berber from Libya, I've already said "A Tuareg from Burkina Faso looks a lot different than one from Libya." A Berber from Libya looking "white" is not indicative of how all Berbers from other regions look.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

Berbers were darkened by Arab expansion. Also Arabs are Semitic, like Sephardic Jews . Not African. Any Africans claiming to be Arab would be due to Arab expansionism. The Moors were also a Muslim Kingdom. And 100% Muslim.

I don't really like or subscribe to the term "Semitic" for describing people, maybe because it's based on the Bible, which I consider largely a myth. It comes from the sons of Noah (Ham, Shem, and Japhet) who are supposed to be the progenitors of the Hamites (Africans near the Levant--Egyptians, Ethiopians, etc.), Semites, and (no one really knows who Japhet is supposed to be the father of but I've heard people say Caucasian and some say east Asians). It doesn't account for Australian Aborigines or Polynesians, for example. It's how ancient Middle Easterners tried to explain the world around them, and their world was very small because there was so much they were unaware of. Truthfully, most of the people I've met who are self-described Jews, I would consider white...and I don't consider Arabs to be white. So "Semitic" as a term inclusive of both those people (European Jews and Middle Eastern Arabs) is inadequate to me because I consider them distinct. As a caveat, maybe because I'm such a PC Liberal (lol), I respect people's right to identify however they choose to, so it doesn't really matter what I think of the term "Semitic..." or who is white or who is black. If someone identifies as such, I will respect that and address them as such. Race, at the end of the day, is really an arbitrary social convention. What would pass for white or black to me could be different from what would pass as such for you. I'm not interested in forcing labels on anyone and I'd rather let them speak for themselves. All the Tuareg people I've personally met identified as black, if they used such terms, but I'm pretty sure there are also Tuareg people who identify as white. Who am I to tell them any different?

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

The reason, once again why Moors were veiewed as black is simple, because black Moors, recent converts to Islam reconquered parts of Europe when the moderate muslim empire collapsed. I've taken many college courses that dealt with the occupation of Spain. It's a gigantic misconception Moors were black. There were black Moors tho.

If there were black Moors, it isn't a "gigantic" misconception that the Moors were black.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"A marabout (Arabic: مُرابِط‎, translit. murābiṭ, lit. 'one who is attached/garrisoned') is a Muslim religious leader and teacher in West Africa, and (historically) in the Maghreb. The marabout is often a scholar of the Qur'an, or religious teacher.

---------- Post added at 11:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------

[/COLOR]"Moor, in English usage, a Moroccan or, formerly, a member of the Muslim population of what is now Spain and Portugal. Of mixed Arab, Spanish, and Amazigh (Berber) origins, the Moors created the Arab Andalusian civilization and subsequently settled as refugees in North Africa between the 11th and 17th centuries."

---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

"The term "Moors" refers primarily to the Muslim inhabitants of the Maghreb, the Iberian Peninsula, Sicily, and Malta during the Middle Ages. The Moors initially were the Berber autochthones of the Maghreb.[1] The name was later also applied to Arabs.[2][3]

Moors are not a distinct or self-defined people,[4] and the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica observed that "The term 'Moors' has no real ethnological value."[5] Medieval and early modern Europeans variously applied the name to Arabs, North African Berbers, and Muslim Europeans"

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------

The Egyptian Book of Gates is around 3 or 4 thousand years old and depicts Berbers (Libyans) as white. Find an older more reliable source and I'll believe you Berbers were black.

There's only so much one can learn from Wikipedia entries. I have personally studied under Marabout and Sufi sheikhs. I've studied with sheikhs from the Tajani, Qadiri and Naqshabandi orders. The Sufis, like the Marabouts, are often considered heretics in the eyes or orthodox Muslims.

[Wayco]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

I didn't say Berbers were black. I compared them to Latinos and said they look more black or more Arab depending on which region they are from, and then I pointed out examples of Berber or Tuareg people who phenotypically would be considered black.

I am familiar with the wall painting you are probably referring to. The Book of Gates in the tomb of Seti I. However, all the versions showing Caucasian-looking figures are reconstructions. The actual original tomb painting itself is so damaged and with faded colors that the figures could be interpreted to have looked otherwise when they were originally painted. Also, they were depicting a Libyan, not necessarily a Berber. Then, as is the case now, not all Libyans looked the same. North Africa had been invaded by Mediterranean Europeans (Romans) and also Phoenicians, but the Berbers are indigenous to North Africa and didn't come from elsewhere. White people may have been present in ancient North Africa, but they are not indigenous to it and they are not Berbers. Even if the image was meant to depict a Berber from Libya, I've already said "A Tuareg from Burkina Faso looks a lot different than one from Libya." A Berber from Libya looking "white" is not indicative of how all Berbers from other regions look.


I don't really like or subscribe to the term "Semitic" for describing people, maybe because it's based on the Bible, which I consider largely a myth. It comes from the sons of Noah (Ham, Shem, and Japhet) who are supposed to be the progenitors of the Hamites (Africans near the Levant--Egyptians, Ethiopians, etc.), Semites, and (no one really knows who Japhet is supposed to be the father of but I've heard people say Caucasian and some say east Asians). It doesn't account for Australian Aborigines or Polynesians, for example. It's how ancient Middle Easterners tried to explain the world around them, and their world was very small because there was so much they were unaware of. Truthfully, most of the people I've met who are self-described Jews, I would consider white...and I don't consider Arabs to be white. So "Semitic" as a term inclusive of both those people (European Jews and Middle Eastern Arabs) is inadequate to me because I consider them distinct. As a caveat, maybe because I'm such a PC Liberal (lol), I respect people's right to identify however they choose to, so it doesn't really matter what I think of the term "Semitic..." or who is white or who is black. If someone identifies as such, I will respect that and address them as such. Race, at the end of the day, is really an arbitrary social convention. What would pass for white or black to me could be different from what would pass as such for you. I'm not interested in forcing labels on anyone and I'd rather let them speak for themselves. All the Tuareg people I've personally met identified as black, if they used such terms, but I'm pretty sure there are also Tuareg people who identify as white. Who am I to tell them any different?


If there were black Moors, it isn't a "gigantic" misconception that the Moors were black.




There's only so much one can learn from Wikipedia entries. I have personally studied under Marabout and Sufi sheikhs. I've studied with sheikhs from the Tajani, Qadiri and Naqshabandi orders. The Sufis, like the Marabouts, are often considered heretics in the eyes or orthodox Muslims.

"The Book of Gates" - Your answer makes me think you just googled it real quick. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're well versed in Egyptian Mythology/ History. However, claiming the depictions were too faded to tell the race is absurd. Egyptians made Africans look much different than Libyans.

"That was Libyans not Berbers" - I think you're confused with ancient Libyans and the modem state of Libya. Ancient Libyans are the ancestors of the Berber people. The inscription is much older than the Greek or Roman empires so they didn't affect the look of Libyans. Ancient Libya was from Morocco to Algeria btw.

"The Latin name*Libya*(from GreekΛιβύη,*Libyē) referred to the region west of the*Nile*generally corresponding to the modern*Maghreb. Its people were ancestors of the modern*Berbers.[1]Berbers occupied the area for thousands of years before the beginning of human records in ancient Egypt.Climate changes*affected the locations of the settlements."

"I pointed out they look black" - Berbers are not black nor were their ancestors. But there are black Africans that mixed with Berbers and adopted the Berber culture. That was around 700ad to 1100ad and the majority of Berbers are Berber / Arab with a little European and African mix.

Im glad you're such an expert and told me my wife's heritage didn't matter. Even though, she's Berber and has been to Libya, Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria several times. Of course, you know her ancestry better than her.

"I don't subscribe to the term Semitic" - Ok so you don't subscribe to science? Now im thinking you're trolling me. Or maybe you believe Hebrews were black just like you do Moors? Maybe you watch to much YouTube. Im sure you believe black Egyptians built the pyramids?

Semitic "adjective

1.

relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.

2.

relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic."

"Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs,*Assyrians,Samaritans,*Maronites,*Druze,Mand aeans, and*Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.[14]"

"I dont consider Arabs to be white" - It doesn't matter, Arabs are white by US standards.

"For 71 years, the United States has classified Americans of Middle Eastern and North African ancestry as “white”"

"Only so much one can learn from Wikipedia" - Well maybe you should start there cuz I've shown you to be wrong many times. If you think I learned from Wikipedia you're sadly mistaken.

"I've studied under Sufi Sheiks" - Are you saying you dance and sing well? Sufis are just the esoteric branch of Islam. And religion isn't race. Anyone can be a Sufi. I dont know what it has to do with Berbers tho. Point?

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ----------

In my estimation black revisionist are as bad as white ones. Either blacks built everything and were Moors, Egyptians, Berbers, Hebrews and g0d or the great white race were Pharaohs, Aryans and the creators of mathematics and Noble behavior. Yeah... and if you think people are what ever race they identify with then you must believe Aryans are the great white race. Well, as long as white people believe they're such.

---------- Post added at 10:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 AM ----------

I'm a Scythian warrior btw

---------- Post added at 10:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------

Black revisionism, with support from it's liberal enforcers, is what made memes like "Hitler did nothing wrong" so effective and popular. Trolling begets trolling. No one ever gaf about Hitler, rather the reactions from saying it.

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------

[Wayco]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

I didn't say Berbers were black. I compared them to Latinos and said they look more black or more Arab depending on which region they are from, and then I pointed out examples of Berber or Tuareg people who phenotypically would be considered black.

I am familiar with the wall painting you are probably referring to. The Book of Gates in the tomb of Seti I. However, all the versions showing Caucasian-looking figures are reconstructions. The actual original tomb painting itself is so damaged and with faded colors that the figures could be interpreted to have looked otherwise when they were originally painted. Also, they were depicting a Libyan, not necessarily a Berber. Then, as is the case now, not all Libyans looked the same. North Africa had been invaded by Mediterranean Europeans (Romans) and also Phoenicians, but the Berbers are indigenous to North Africa and didn't come from elsewhere. White people may have been present in ancient North Africa, but they are not indigenous to it and they are not Berbers. Even if the image was meant to depict a Berber from Libya, I've already said "A Tuareg from Burkina Faso looks a lot different than one from Libya." A Berber from Libya looking "white" is not indicative of how all Berbers from other regions look.


I don't really like or subscribe to the term "Semitic" for describing people, maybe because it's based on the Bible, which I consider largely a myth. It comes from the sons of Noah (Ham, Shem, and Japhet) who are supposed to be the progenitors of the Hamites (Africans near the Levant--Egyptians, Ethiopians, etc.), Semites, and (no one really knows who Japhet is supposed to be the father of but I've heard people say Caucasian and some say east Asians). It doesn't account for Australian Aborigines or Polynesians, for example. It's how ancient Middle Easterners tried to explain the world around them, and their world was very small because there was so much they were unaware of. Truthfully, most of the people I've met who are self-described Jews, I would consider white...and I don't consider Arabs to be white. So "Semitic" as a term inclusive of both those people (European Jews and Middle Eastern Arabs) is inadequate to me because I consider them distinct. As a caveat, maybe because I'm such a PC Liberal (lol), I respect people's right to identify however they choose to, so it doesn't really matter what I think of the term "Semitic..." or who is white or who is black. If someone identifies as such, I will respect that and address them as such. Race, at the end of the day, is really an arbitrary social convention. What would pass for white or black to me could be different from what would pass as such for you. I'm not interested in forcing labels on anyone and I'd rather let them speak for themselves. All the Tuareg people I've personally met identified as black, if they used such terms, but I'm pretty sure there are also Tuareg people who identify as white. Who am I to tell them any different?


If there were black Moors, it isn't a "gigantic" misconception that the Moors were black.




There's only so much one can learn from Wikipedia entries. I have personally studied under Marabout and Sufi sheikhs. I've studied with sheikhs from the Tajani, Qadiri and Naqshabandi orders. The Sufis, like the Marabouts, are often considered heretics in the eyes or orthodox Muslims.

"The Book of Gates" - Your answer makes me think you just googled it real quick. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're well versed in Egyptian Mythology/ History. However, claiming the depictions were too faded to tell the race is absurd. Egyptians made Africans look much different than Libyans.

"That was Libyans not Berbers" - I think you're confused with ancient Libyans and the modem state of Libya. Ancient Libyans are the ancestors of the Berber people. The inscription is much older than the Greek or Roman empires so they didn't affect the look of Libyans. Ancient Libya was from Morocco to Algeria btw.

"The Latin name*Libya*(from GreekΛιβύη,*Libyē) referred to the region west of the*Nile*generally corresponding to the modern*Maghreb. Its people were ancestors of the modern*Berbers.[1]Berbers occupied the area for thousands of years before the beginning of human records in ancient Egypt.Climate changes*affected the locations of the settlements."

"I pointed out they look black" - Berbers are not black nor were their ancestors. But there are black Africans that mixed with Berbers and adopted the Berber culture. That was around 700ad to 1100ad and the majority of Berbers are Berber / Arab with a little European and African mix.

Im glad you're such an expert and told me my wife's heritage didn't matter. Even though, she's Berber and has been to Libya, Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria several times. Of course, you know her ancestry better than her.

"I don't subscribe to the term Semitic" - Ok so you don't subscribe to science? Now im thinking you're trolling me. Or maybe you believe Hebrews were black just like you do Moors? Maybe you watch to much YouTube. Im sure you believe black Egyptians built the pyramids?

Semitic "adjective

1.

relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.

2.

relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic."

"Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs,*Assyrians,Samaritans,*Maronites,*Druze,Mand aeans, and*Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.[14]"

"I dont consider Arabs to be white" - It doesn't matter, Arabs are white by US standards.

"For 71 years, the United States has classified Americans of Middle Eastern and North African ancestry as “white”"

"Only so much one can learn from Wikipedia" - Well maybe you should start there cuz I've shown you to be wrong many times. If you think I learned from Wikipedia you're sadly mistaken.

"I've studied under Sufi Sheiks" - Are you saying you dance and sing well? Sufis are just the esoteric branch of Islam. And religion isn't race. Anyone can be a Sufi. I dont know what it has to do with Berbers tho. Point?

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ----------

In my estimation black revisionist are as bad as white ones. Either blacks built everything and were Moors, Egyptians, Berbers, Hebrews and g0d or the great white race were Pharaohs, Aryans and the creators of mathematics and Noble behavior. Yeah... and if you think people are what ever race they identify with then you must believe Aryans are the great white race. Well, as long as white people believe they're such.

---------- Post added at 10:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 AM ----------

I'm a Scythian warrior btw

---------- Post added at 10:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------

Black revisionism, with support from it's liberal enforcers, is what made memes like "Hitler did nothing wrong" so effective and popular. Trolling begets trolling. No one ever gaf about Hitler, rather the reactions from saying it.

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"The Book of Gates" - Your answer makes me think you just googled it real quick. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're well versed in Egyptian Mythology/ History. However, claiming the depictions were too faded to tell the race is absurd. Egyptians made Africans look much different than Libyans.

I actually did Google because I couldn't remember the name of the picture and where it was from. But I was already familiar with it and I was at one point well versed in Egyptian mythology and history. Saying Egyptians made Africans look much different is simply stupid. The Egyptians were Africans themselves and so we're the Libyans. Everyone depicted on that wall were Africans. Or do you want to argue that Egypt and Libya are not in Africa? I think what you meant is they made Sudanese or people to their south look different with darker paint.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"That was Libyans not Berbers" - I think you're confused with ancient Libyans and the modem state of Libya. Ancient Libyans are the ancestors of the Berber people. The inscription is much older than the Greek or Roman empires so they didn't affect the look of Libyans. Ancient Libya was from Morocco to Algeria btw.

I actually thought you might have been confused, but I'm glad we're both aware that ancient Libya spans a greater geographical area than the modern country named Libya. That's why I added that, then as is the case now, not all Libyans looked the same, and neither was Libya filled with only Berbers, and there had been Phoenician settlers in North Africa even before the Romans and Greeks. So a depiction of a "Libyan" doesn't necessarily equate a depiction of a Berber. A "Libyan" at that time could have been anybody from the settlers to the indigenous people of various shades.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"I pointed out they look black" - Berbers are not black nor were their ancestors. But there are black Africans that mixed with Berbers and adopted the Berber culture. That was around 700ad to 1100ad and the majority of Berbers are Berber / Arab with a little European and African mix.

You seem to think of race as an absolute. For the sake of argument, let's assume what you say is true and Berbers are not black but are mixed with black, Arab, and European. Are they all homogeneously mixed, or are some a little more mixed with black or a little more mixed with Arab than others? At which point are they so mixed that one can say they "look black" or "look Arab?" If you're saying any degree of mixture means they are not black, then you might as well say African Americans aren't black even though their DNA is like 80% African on average. Lol. Go tell a Fulani from Nigeria or a Tuareg from Mali they are not black.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

Im glad you're such an expert and told me my wife's heritage didn't matter. Even though, she's Berber and has been to Libya, Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria several times. Of course, you know her ancestry better than her.

Untuck your dick from between your asscheeks and realize I didn't say your wife's heritage didn't matter. What I said was MY OPINION of what I think her race is or what I think of terms like "Semitic" ultimately doesn't matter, but what DOES matter is how people choose to identify themselves. If your wife thinks she is white, then I respect that and will address her as a white person.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"I don't subscribe to the term Semitic" - Ok so you don't subscribe to science? Now im thinking you're trolling me. Or maybe you believe Hebrews were black just like you do Moors? Maybe you watch to much YouTube. Im sure you believe black Egyptians built the pyramids?

Semitic "adjective

1.

relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.

2.

relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic."

"Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs,*Assyrians,Samaritans,*Maronites,*Druze,Mand aeans, and*Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.[14]"

Semitic is not a scientific term, concept, or theory so how does saying I don't subscribe to the term Semitic mean I don't subscribe to science? Yes, science can be used to map the genetics of people we call "Semites" and show a correlation of haplogroups, but that doesn't make the term "Semitic " scientific. The term Semitic is derived from the Bible (Shem, one of the sons of Noah) and I specifically mentioned that as one of the reasons I find it inaccurate. So the term Semitic is Biblical, not scientific. I know the word exists and what it means or what it's supposed to mean. That doesn't mean I'm precluded from thinking more accurate term for describing people within the same set can be found. Even though we disagree, you were cool until this post when you started sounding cheeky, putting words in my mouth and coming with strawman arguments. I think you probably watch YouTube more than me and have came across people arguing that everyone from the Moors to Egyptians were black and are lumping me into the same category so to some extent, you're arguing against them, not me. Have I said anything about Egyptians in this thread? I may or may not believe black Egyptians built the pyramids, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and stick to arguing against only what has been stated thus far.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

""I dont consider Arabs to be white" - It doesn't matter, Arabs are white by US standards.

Like I said before, race is an arbitrary social convention, and while I may have opinions about people's race, I ultimately respect their right to identify however they choose. If an Arab person told me they are white, I'll accept that. I'm pretty sure there are some who identify as white just as I'm sure there are some who don't. If you're will to tell an Arab who denies being white that they are in fact white because of US standards, be my guest.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"I've studied under Sufi Sheiks" - Are you saying you dance and sing well? Sufis are just the esoteric branch of Islam. And religion isn't race. Anyone can be a Sufi. I dont know what it has to do with Berbers tho. Point?

Are you aware that not all Sufis sing and dance or belong to the so-called whirling dervishes? I mentioned the specific orders the sheikhs I studied under were from. Research Maraboutism, which I said earlier was a syncretic religion practiced by the Moors in Spain, then come back and tell me what it has to do with Berbers and Sufism.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"The Book of Gates" - Your answer makes me think you just googled it real quick. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're well versed in Egyptian Mythology/ History. However, claiming the depictions were too faded to tell the race is absurd. Egyptians made Africans look much different than Libyans.

I actually did Google because I couldn't remember the name of the picture and where it was from. But I was already familiar with it and I was at one point well versed in Egyptian mythology and history. Saying Egyptians made Africans look much different is simply stupid. The Egyptians were Africans themselves and so we're the Libyans. Everyone depicted on that wall were Africans. Or do you want to argue that Egypt and Libya are not in Africa? I think what you meant is they made Sudanese or people to their south look different with darker paint.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"That was Libyans not Berbers" - I think you're confused with ancient Libyans and the modem state of Libya. Ancient Libyans are the ancestors of the Berber people. The inscription is much older than the Greek or Roman empires so they didn't affect the look of Libyans. Ancient Libya was from Morocco to Algeria btw.

I actually thought you might have been confused, but I'm glad we're both aware that ancient Libya spans a greater geographical area than the modern country named Libya. That's why I added that, then as is the case now, not all Libyans looked the same, and neither was Libya filled with only Berbers, and there had been Phoenician settlers in North Africa even before the Romans and Greeks. So a depiction of a "Libyan" doesn't necessarily equate a depiction of a Berber. A "Libyan" at that time could have been anybody from the settlers to the indigenous people of various shades.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"I pointed out they look black" - Berbers are not black nor were their ancestors. But there are black Africans that mixed with Berbers and adopted the Berber culture. That was around 700ad to 1100ad and the majority of Berbers are Berber / Arab with a little European and African mix.

You seem to think of race as an absolute. For the sake of argument, let's assume what you say is true and Berbers are not black but are mixed with black, Arab, and European. Are they all homogeneously mixed, or are some a little more mixed with black or a little more mixed with Arab than others? At which point are they so mixed that one can say they "look black" or "look Arab?" If you're saying any degree of mixture means they are not black, then you might as well say African Americans aren't black even though their DNA is like 80% African on average. Lol. Go tell a Fulani from Nigeria or a Tuareg from Mali they are not black.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

Im glad you're such an expert and told me my wife's heritage didn't matter. Even though, she's Berber and has been to Libya, Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria several times. Of course, you know her ancestry better than her.

Untuck your dick from between your asscheeks and realize I didn't say your wife's heritage didn't matter. What I said was MY OPINION of what I think her race is or what I think of terms like "Semitic" ultimately doesn't matter, but what DOES matter is how people choose to identify themselves. If your wife thinks she is white, then I respect that and will address her as a white person.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"I don't subscribe to the term Semitic" - Ok so you don't subscribe to science? Now im thinking you're trolling me. Or maybe you believe Hebrews were black just like you do Moors? Maybe you watch to much YouTube. Im sure you believe black Egyptians built the pyramids?

Semitic "adjective

1.

relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.

2.

relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic."

"Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs,*Assyrians,Samaritans,*Maronites,*Druze,Mand aeans, and*Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.[14]"

Semitic is not a scientific term, concept, or theory so how does saying I don't subscribe to the term Semitic mean I don't subscribe to science? Yes, science can be used to map the genetics of people we call "Semites" and show a correlation of haplogroups, but that doesn't make the term "Semitic " scientific. The term Semitic is derived from the Bible (Shem, one of the sons of Noah) and I specifically mentioned that as one of the reasons I find it inaccurate. So the term Semitic is Biblical, not scientific. I know the word exists and what it means or what it's supposed to mean. That doesn't mean I'm precluded from thinking more accurate term for describing people within the same set can be found. Even though we disagree, you were cool until this post when you started sounding cheeky, putting words in my mouth and coming with strawman arguments. I think you probably watch YouTube more than me and have came across people arguing that everyone from the Moors to Egyptians were black and are lumping me into the same category so to some extent, you're arguing against them, not me. Have I said anything about Egyptians in this thread? I may or may not believe black Egyptians built the pyramids, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and stick to arguing against only what has been stated thus far.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

""I dont consider Arabs to be white" - It doesn't matter, Arabs are white by US standards.

Like I said before, race is an arbitrary social convention, and while I may have opinions about people's race, I ultimately respect their right to identify however they choose. If an Arab person told me they are white, I'll accept that. I'm pretty sure there are some who identify as white just as I'm sure there are some who don't. If you're will to tell an Arab who denies being white that they are in fact white because of US standards, be my guest.

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

"I've studied under Sufi Sheiks" - Are you saying you dance and sing well? Sufis are just the esoteric branch of Islam. And religion isn't race. Anyone can be a Sufi. I dont know what it has to do with Berbers tho. Point?

Are you aware that not all Sufis sing and dance or belong to the so-called whirling dervishes? I mentioned the specific orders the sheikhs I studied under were from. Research Maraboutism, which I said earlier was a syncretic religion practiced by the Moors in Spain, then come back and tell me what it has to do with Berbers and Sufism.