Elo Ranking System + Matchmaking

[Mindless]

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Jones

Pointless because you don't have the userbase to pull it off plus this isn't a game where raw mechanical skill, knowledge on the latest metas from balance patches and partying up vs solos take president over knowing who you're VSing. Theres a reason people here prefer to pre arrange battles\have 3 days notice from tourneys ect. Plus most people prefer to pick their opponents spontainiously to get themselves motivated rather than have ELO RNG dictate they face *insert name* For the tenth time this week because the site doesn't have the numbers to support an ELO MM.
Which ever way you want to slice it, it wont work.

I've actually been working on a system off and on in my spare time writing pseudo code to try and figure out a good way to do the ranking system and I think it addresses this problem.

My method involves assigning a points to users that they gain or lose according to whether they win or lose. How many points the winner takes from the loser ranges on factors from the difference in estimated skill level, current rank and w/l record. Basically it works by having a range of 0-N where N is the cap of the maximum amount of points that can be taken. A user facing another with a much lower skill level than them would gain nothing from the win but an increase in w/l. Basically it would nerf someone like @Bnas from doing his goofy shit and being able to crack the top 100 because at a certain point you gain nothing from battling people that much lower than you. Also, the more you do it the faster it nets you nothing because your w/l goes up. I'll post it below but it's unfinished and a mess at this point.

Keep in mind this is pseudocode (Written with p5.JavaScript syntax for the most part):

var maxEstimatedSkill = 10;
var ELOPoints = NumberOfRegisteredUsers;
var MaxEloChange = 32;
//W-L expressed as decimal
var winLoss = 0;
//I'm not sure how exactly to express a mathematical formula for determining exactly how to remove the number of points taken
var pointSubtraction;

var User1 = {
//All numbers in here are random. I didn't feel like writing some actual code in
//a spreadsheet to distribute the ELO points amongst the current user count
//(139,421) randomly and then sorting it. This should do well enough to express what
//I'm getting at.
    currentRank: 35,
    EstimatedSkill: 7,
    CurrentEloPoints: 15000,
    winLoss = 75.3
}

var User2 = {
    currentRank: 1000,
    EstimatedSkill: 7,
    CurrentEloPoints: 1200,
    winLoss = 25.2
}

function Battle() {
    
    Predict = {
    User1PredictionScore = user1.CurrentEloPoints + (user1.currentRank + user1.EstimatedSkill + user1.winLoss);
    User2PredictionScore = user2.CurrentEloPoints + (user2.currentRank + user2.EstimatedSkill + user2.winLoss);
      if (User1PredictionScore > User2PredictionScore) prediction = User1 wins;
      if (User2PredictionScore > User1PredictionScore) prediction = User2 wins;
      if (User1PredictionScore == User2PredictionScore) prediction = CoinFlip; //do nothing
    }
    
    DetermineWinner = {
    if (user1VoteTally > greater than user2VoteTally) {
    user1 wins} else { 
    user2 wins
     }
    }
    
    Winner = Result
    
    DetermineRankChange = {
    if Winner was predicted {
    ELOAdded = MaxEloChange - (pointSubtraction)
    }
    if Winner was not predicted {
    ELOAdded = UnderDogWin
    UnderDogWin() {
    //Determine the amount of points added to the winner based on the amount of difference between the two.
    //Probably by using the PredictionScore.
        }    
    }
    }
}

[Mindless]

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Jones

Pointless because you don't have the userbase to pull it off plus this isn't a game where raw mechanical skill, knowledge on the latest metas from balance patches and partying up vs solos take president over knowing who you're VSing. Theres a reason people here prefer to pre arrange battles\have 3 days notice from tourneys ect. Plus most people prefer to pick their opponents spontainiously to get themselves motivated rather than have ELO RNG dictate they face *insert name* For the tenth time this week because the site doesn't have the numbers to support an ELO MM.
Which ever way you want to slice it, it wont work.

I've actually been working on a system off and on in my spare time writing pseudo code to try and figure out a good way to do the ranking system and I think it addresses this problem.

My method involves assigning a points to users that they gain or lose according to whether they win or lose. How many points the winner takes from the loser ranges on factors from the difference in estimated skill level, current rank and w/l record. Basically it works by having a range of 0-N where N is the cap of the maximum amount of points that can be taken. A user facing another with a much lower skill level than them would gain nothing from the win but an increase in w/l. Basically it would nerf someone like @Bnas from doing his goofy shit and being able to crack the top 100 because at a certain point you gain nothing from battling people that much lower than you. Also, the more you do it the faster it nets you nothing because your w/l goes up. I'll post it below but it's unfinished and a mess at this point.

Keep in mind this is pseudocode (Written with p5.JavaScript syntax for the most part):

var maxEstimatedSkill = 10;
var ELOPoints = NumberOfRegisteredUsers;
var MaxEloChange = 32;
//W-L expressed as decimal
var winLoss = 0;
//I'm not sure how exactly to express a mathematical formula for determining exactly how to remove the number of points taken
var pointSubtraction;

var User1 = {
//All numbers in here are random. I didn't feel like writing some actual code in
//a spreadsheet to distribute the ELO points amongst the current user count
//(139,421) randomly and then sorting it. This should do well enough to express what
//I'm getting at.
    currentRank: 35,
    EstimatedSkill: 7,
    CurrentEloPoints: 15000,
    winLoss = 75.3
}

var User2 = {
    currentRank: 1000,
    EstimatedSkill: 7,
    CurrentEloPoints: 1200,
    winLoss = 25.2
}

function Battle() {
    
    Predict = {
    User1PredictionScore = user1.CurrentEloPoints + (user1.currentRank + user1.EstimatedSkill + user1.winLoss);
    User2PredictionScore = user2.CurrentEloPoints + (user2.currentRank + user2.EstimatedSkill + user2.winLoss);
      if (User1PredictionScore > User2PredictionScore) prediction = User1 wins;
      if (User2PredictionScore > User1PredictionScore) prediction = User2 wins;
      if (User1PredictionScore == User2PredictionScore) prediction = CoinFlip; //do nothing
    }
    
    DetermineWinner = {
    if (user1VoteTally > greater than user2VoteTally) {
    user1 wins} else { 
    user2 wins
     }
    }
    
    Winner = Result
    
    DetermineRankChange = {
    if Winner was predicted {
    ELOAdded = MaxEloChange - (pointSubtraction)
    }
    if Winner was not predicted {
    ELOAdded = UnderDogWin
    UnderDogWin() {
    //Determine the amount of points added to the winner based on the amount of difference between the two.
    //Probably by using the PredictionScore.
        }    
    }
    }
}

[J u s T C]

Originally Posted by Mindless

I've actually been working on a system off and on in my spare time writing pseudo code to try and figure out a good way to do the ranking system and I think it addresses this problem.

My method involves assigning a points to users that they gain or lose according to whether they win or lose. How many points the winner takes from the loser ranges on factors from the difference in estimated skill level, current rank and w/l record. Basically it works by having a range of 0-N where N is the cap of the maximum amount of points that can be taken. A user facing another with a much lower skill level than them would gain nothing from the win but an increase in w/l. Basically it would nerf someone like @Bnas from doing his goofy shit and being able to crack the top 100 because at a certain point you gain nothing from battling people that much lower than you. Also, the more you do it the faster it nets you nothing because your w/l goes up. I'll post it below but it's unfinished and a mess at this point.

Keep in mind this is pseudocode (Written with p5.JavaScript syntax for the most part):

var maxEstimatedSkill = 10;
var ELOPoints = NumberOfRegisteredUsers;
var MaxEloChange = 32;
//W-L expressed as decimal
var winLoss = 0;
//I'm not sure how exactly to express a mathematical formula for determining exactly how to remove the number of points taken
var pointSubtraction;

var User1 = {
//All numbers in here are random. I didn't feel like writing some actual code in
//a spreadsheet to distribute the ELO points amongst the current user count
//(139,421) randomly and then sorting it. This should do well enough to express what
//I'm getting at.
    currentRank: 35,
    EstimatedSkill: 7,
    CurrentEloPoints: 15000,
    winLoss = 75.3
}

var User2 = {
    currentRank: 1000,
    EstimatedSkill: 7,
    CurrentEloPoints: 1200,
    winLoss = 25.2
}

function Battle() {
    
    Predict = {
    User1PredictionScore = user1.CurrentEloPoints + (user1.currentRank + user1.EstimatedSkill + user1.winLoss);
    User2PredictionScore = user2.CurrentEloPoints + (user2.currentRank + user2.EstimatedSkill + user2.winLoss);
      if (User1PredictionScore > User2PredictionScore) prediction = User1 wins;
      if (User2PredictionScore > User1PredictionScore) prediction = User2 wins;
      if (User1PredictionScore == User2PredictionScore) prediction = CoinFlip; //do nothing
    }
    
    DetermineWinner = {
    if (user1VoteTally > greater than user2VoteTally) {
    user1 wins} else { 
    user2 wins
     }
    }
    
    Winner = Result
    
    DetermineRankChange = {
    if Winner was predicted {
    ELOAdded = MaxEloChange - (pointSubtraction)
    }
    if Winner was not predicted {
    ELOAdded = UnderDogWin
    UnderDogWin() {
    //Determine the amount of points added to the winner based on the amount of difference between the two.
    //Probably by using the PredictionScore.
        }    
    }
    }
}

Is this with an automated MM system or pick your battles in mind?

[J u s T C]

Originally Posted by Mindless

I've actually been working on a system off and on in my spare time writing pseudo code to try and figure out a good way to do the ranking system and I think it addresses this problem.

My method involves assigning a points to users that they gain or lose according to whether they win or lose. How many points the winner takes from the loser ranges on factors from the difference in estimated skill level, current rank and w/l record. Basically it works by having a range of 0-N where N is the cap of the maximum amount of points that can be taken. A user facing another with a much lower skill level than them would gain nothing from the win but an increase in w/l. Basically it would nerf someone like @Bnas from doing his goofy shit and being able to crack the top 100 because at a certain point you gain nothing from battling people that much lower than you. Also, the more you do it the faster it nets you nothing because your w/l goes up. I'll post it below but it's unfinished and a mess at this point.

Keep in mind this is pseudocode (Written with p5.JavaScript syntax for the most part):

var maxEstimatedSkill = 10;
var ELOPoints = NumberOfRegisteredUsers;
var MaxEloChange = 32;
//W-L expressed as decimal
var winLoss = 0;
//I'm not sure how exactly to express a mathematical formula for determining exactly how to remove the number of points taken
var pointSubtraction;

var User1 = {
//All numbers in here are random. I didn't feel like writing some actual code in
//a spreadsheet to distribute the ELO points amongst the current user count
//(139,421) randomly and then sorting it. This should do well enough to express what
//I'm getting at.
    currentRank: 35,
    EstimatedSkill: 7,
    CurrentEloPoints: 15000,
    winLoss = 75.3
}

var User2 = {
    currentRank: 1000,
    EstimatedSkill: 7,
    CurrentEloPoints: 1200,
    winLoss = 25.2
}

function Battle() {
    
    Predict = {
    User1PredictionScore = user1.CurrentEloPoints + (user1.currentRank + user1.EstimatedSkill + user1.winLoss);
    User2PredictionScore = user2.CurrentEloPoints + (user2.currentRank + user2.EstimatedSkill + user2.winLoss);
      if (User1PredictionScore > User2PredictionScore) prediction = User1 wins;
      if (User2PredictionScore > User1PredictionScore) prediction = User2 wins;
      if (User1PredictionScore == User2PredictionScore) prediction = CoinFlip; //do nothing
    }
    
    DetermineWinner = {
    if (user1VoteTally > greater than user2VoteTally) {
    user1 wins} else { 
    user2 wins
     }
    }
    
    Winner = Result
    
    DetermineRankChange = {
    if Winner was predicted {
    ELOAdded = MaxEloChange - (pointSubtraction)
    }
    if Winner was not predicted {
    ELOAdded = UnderDogWin
    UnderDogWin() {
    //Determine the amount of points added to the winner based on the amount of difference between the two.
    //Probably by using the PredictionScore.
        }    
    }
    }
}

Is this with an automated MM system or pick your battles in mind?

[Mindless]

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Jones

Is this with an automated MM system or pick your battles in mind?

You would pick your own battles. It's kind of based on the way that RPG stats are gained in that you can only level up by facing opponents with stats that are equal to or higher than your own. Basically we're applying the law of diminishing returns to battling. The difference is that someone low ranked doesn't risk as much facing someone much higher than them.

Originally Posted by ILLoKWENT

lmao.. goldmic already had a ratings system in place years ago, ive been bringing that idea up for a long time.. for each profile, a person is given a +/- followed by a designated points, corresponding to how strong the opponent ia based on opponents, and rank.. so a strong battler will see a weak battlers points as +5/-35 meaning if he keeps battling scrubs, hell only gain 5 points toward his rating, but if he loses ,he could lose 35... if a strong battler faces one thats his level, hed see +15/-15.. etc.etc. this will encourage battlers to challenge stronger opponents to move up quicker..dunno how the point system is now, but at least with this in place, you can visually see what points youd gain, or lost against certain opponents

I kind of like this but I think that's too much information to give. IMO, the only information anyone should have on anyone is their current rank, w/l and ESL. If you give people too much insight into the system they figure out a way to game it and use it in ways it wasn't intended. Also, what would a weak battler see on the page of a strong battler? What's the cap on point loss?

Originally Posted by Nicholas

This sounds better than the original suggestion. I don't like the idea of forced match-ups and I don't think suggested match-ups would even be acknowledged. The problem is, what do you guys do now? Delete all previous points? That seems unfair.

Freeze the current rankings and put them somewhere and say "This is our old ranking system". Then you restart everyone at zero.

Also, forced match-ups is lame unless it's voluntary. What I mean by that is, for the general system it's bad. If it were it's own system it could be fun though. I don't see it ever happening though.

[Mindless]

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Jones

Is this with an automated MM system or pick your battles in mind?

You would pick your own battles. It's kind of based on the way that RPG stats are gained in that you can only level up by facing opponents with stats that are equal to or higher than your own. Basically we're applying the law of diminishing returns to battling. The difference is that someone low ranked doesn't risk as much facing someone much higher than them.

Originally Posted by ILLoKWENT

lmao.. goldmic already had a ratings system in place years ago, ive been bringing that idea up for a long time.. for each profile, a person is given a +/- followed by a designated points, corresponding to how strong the opponent ia based on opponents, and rank.. so a strong battler will see a weak battlers points as +5/-35 meaning if he keeps battling scrubs, hell only gain 5 points toward his rating, but if he loses ,he could lose 35... if a strong battler faces one thats his level, hed see +15/-15.. etc.etc. this will encourage battlers to challenge stronger opponents to move up quicker..dunno how the point system is now, but at least with this in place, you can visually see what points youd gain, or lost against certain opponents

I kind of like this but I think that's too much information to give. IMO, the only information anyone should have on anyone is their current rank, w/l and ESL. If you give people too much insight into the system they figure out a way to game it and use it in ways it wasn't intended. Also, what would a weak battler see on the page of a strong battler? What's the cap on point loss?

Originally Posted by Nicholas

This sounds better than the original suggestion. I don't like the idea of forced match-ups and I don't think suggested match-ups would even be acknowledged. The problem is, what do you guys do now? Delete all previous points? That seems unfair.

Freeze the current rankings and put them somewhere and say "This is our old ranking system". Then you restart everyone at zero.

Also, forced match-ups is lame unless it's voluntary. What I mean by that is, for the general system it's bad. If it were it's own system it could be fun though. I don't see it ever happening though.

[ILLoKWENT]

Originally Posted by Mindless

You would pick your own battles. It's kind of based on the way that RPG stats are gained in that you can only level up by facing opponents with stats that are equal to or higher than your own. Basically we're applying the law of diminishing returns to battling. The difference is that someone low ranked doesn't risk as much facing someone much higher than them.



I kind of like this but I think that's too much information to give. IMO, the only information anyone should have on anyone is their current rank, w/l and ESL. If you give people too much insight into the system they figure out a way to game it and use it in ways it wasn't intended. Also, what would a weak battler see on the page of a strong battler? What's the cap on point loss?



Freeze the current rankings and put them somewhere and say "This is our old ranking system". Then you restart everyone at zero.

Also, forced match-ups is lame unless it's voluntary. What I mean by that is, for the general system it's bad. If it were it's own system it could be fun though. I don't see it ever happening though.

on goldmic ,a weak battler ex.. mc gay would see UA with a +60/-5, or +35/-5...... . UA would see the exact opposite.. so if he battled mc gay and lost, he would lose 60 points and drop in rating. . if UA saw RULES profile then it would be +15/-15..

[ILLoKWENT]

Originally Posted by Mindless

You would pick your own battles. It's kind of based on the way that RPG stats are gained in that you can only level up by facing opponents with stats that are equal to or higher than your own. Basically we're applying the law of diminishing returns to battling. The difference is that someone low ranked doesn't risk as much facing someone much higher than them.



I kind of like this but I think that's too much information to give. IMO, the only information anyone should have on anyone is their current rank, w/l and ESL. If you give people too much insight into the system they figure out a way to game it and use it in ways it wasn't intended. Also, what would a weak battler see on the page of a strong battler? What's the cap on point loss?



Freeze the current rankings and put them somewhere and say "This is our old ranking system". Then you restart everyone at zero.

Also, forced match-ups is lame unless it's voluntary. What I mean by that is, for the general system it's bad. If it were it's own system it could be fun though. I don't see it ever happening though.

on goldmic ,a weak battler ex.. mc gay would see UA with a +60/-5, or +35/-5...... . UA would see the exact opposite.. so if he battled mc gay and lost, he would lose 60 points and drop in rating. . if UA saw RULES profile then it would be +15/-15..