FUCK THE POLICE

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Jason

You probably have a point.
Where there is smoke there is fire, and if this many people are claiming that police are being racist towards the black community there is probably an element of truth to it.
I think the problem lies in the fact that people are latching on to the wrong cases to make this point.
If you watch the video carefully you'll see that there is literally only one second where the cop has him in the chokehold and he is saying he cannot breathe. After Garner is brought to the ground the other cops say "hes down" and the choke is released. His airway was not being restricted the majority of the time the police had him on the ground and he said he couldnt breathe. There is no way the police would have been able to foresee that he would have an asthma attack that would restrict his airways. There was obviously no malicious intent whatsoever, his death was tragic but an obvious accident.
As a completely unbiased educated person it seems blatantly obvious that this cop should not be charged. Sure he should be disciplined that he used an illegal choke but theres no way he could have anticipated that the man would die as a result .. how is it fair to hold him accountable for murder for a completely freak accident?
There is also the fact that the leader of the team that took Garner down was a black woman.
I have yet to see a high profile case video where someone is co-operating completely and entirely and they still somehow end up dead. as far as i have seen there has always been a valid reason at least to some extent why things happened the way they did. in this case Garner started retaliating when the cops went to cuff him and unfortunately it cost him his life. maybe if he didnt resist things would have turned out differently.. who knows. the point is, never give the police a reason to have to get aggressive with you. and thats not a "black person" thing.. that goes for everyone and anyone. I got pulled over a while ago and I rolled my window down and left both hands on the outside of my car while the cop approached my car. 99% of the time being courteous and non-threatening will get you out of escalating a situation with the police. most of the time people don't behave courteous and non-threatning. I saw a video the other day of an black ex new york detective telling people not to answer the cops when they ask them simple questions and to stand there with your arms folded or to walk away. he made it sound like every single cop is out to get black people and the best course of action is to act like an arrogant douche and not provide simple information and be on your way. people are taking these cases and using them as a tool to poison everyone against law enforcement. i dont see what benefit this has. i think this attitude is going to cause alot more problems than it will solve.
i think the take away message from these recent deaths is that people need to stop addressing their issues with the police on the street and handle them in the court. if they are going to arrest you then let them arrest you and take them to court and sue the shit out of the police department. if you have video and you are legit then you will be fine.

I'm not sure which video you watched, but I know there is a shorter 2 minute version and a longer 8 minute version which captured the whole encounter. The chokehold lasted at least 8 seconds and possibly up to 19 seconds because as Garner went down and was surrounded by officers, the view of the officer's chokehold became obscured. Within that period, he pleaded "I can't breathe" repeatedly, at least 5 times. I agree that it was a freak accident and the officer couldn't have known he had an asthma condition, however the chokehold itself was in violation of NYPD policies. The guy leaned over to him as if he was going whisper something in his ear, then sucker choked him immediately to take him down. There was no "put your hands behind your back" or "you're under arrest" uttered giving him a chance to comply before physical force was used. It was basically an argument over what he was doing on that corner. They thought he was vending cigarettes, which he had been known to do before. He and several witnesses who were around stated that he had been breaking up a fight. It was his defiance over being accused of illegally vending and the argument that ensued that lead to the chokehold. On top of the fact that NYPD authorities have themselves stated the chokehold violated policy, the medical examiners who did the autopsy ruled that Garner died as a result of neck compression, NOT asthma attack or cardiac arrest as was suggested by police spokesmen. They (the police) stated he died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, but it appeared by the end of the 8 minute video that he was already dead, right there on the scene as he was unresponsive to anything when the EMT showed up. The EMT checked his pulse (on the scene) and did not administer CPR, probably because there wasn't any point (he didn't have any pulse).
If someone who is not a cop chokes someone else and the cause of death was ruled as being due to neck compression, would you be arguing that the person should not be charged because they only applied the choke for a short time and there's no way they could have known that their victim had a preexisiting medical condition? The fact that someone is an officer doesn't mean EVERYTHING they do while in uniform is in the capacity of an officer. I'm pretty sure that for NYPD officers to perform bank robberies is against their policy too and that there would be no hesitation in prosecuting a bank-robbing officer due to the fact he's a cop, because, unless he was an undercover in some sort of sting operation to bring down the other bank robbers, he wasn't acting in the capacity of an officer when he robbed the bank. I think a safe rule to go by is: when an officer acts outside of police policy and code of conduct, as Eric Garner's choker has done, they are not acting in the capacity of an officer, therefore, there should be no leverage to them being a cop in considering whether and how they should be prosecuted. Otherwise we will continue to have officers who get away with anything, even choking someone to death on cam.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Jason

You probably have a point.
Where there is smoke there is fire, and if this many people are claiming that police are being racist towards the black community there is probably an element of truth to it.
I think the problem lies in the fact that people are latching on to the wrong cases to make this point.
If you watch the video carefully you'll see that there is literally only one second where the cop has him in the chokehold and he is saying he cannot breathe. After Garner is brought to the ground the other cops say "hes down" and the choke is released. His airway was not being restricted the majority of the time the police had him on the ground and he said he couldnt breathe. There is no way the police would have been able to foresee that he would have an asthma attack that would restrict his airways. There was obviously no malicious intent whatsoever, his death was tragic but an obvious accident.
As a completely unbiased educated person it seems blatantly obvious that this cop should not be charged. Sure he should be disciplined that he used an illegal choke but theres no way he could have anticipated that the man would die as a result .. how is it fair to hold him accountable for murder for a completely freak accident?
There is also the fact that the leader of the team that took Garner down was a black woman.
I have yet to see a high profile case video where someone is co-operating completely and entirely and they still somehow end up dead. as far as i have seen there has always been a valid reason at least to some extent why things happened the way they did. in this case Garner started retaliating when the cops went to cuff him and unfortunately it cost him his life. maybe if he didnt resist things would have turned out differently.. who knows. the point is, never give the police a reason to have to get aggressive with you. and thats not a "black person" thing.. that goes for everyone and anyone. I got pulled over a while ago and I rolled my window down and left both hands on the outside of my car while the cop approached my car. 99% of the time being courteous and non-threatening will get you out of escalating a situation with the police. most of the time people don't behave courteous and non-threatning. I saw a video the other day of an black ex new york detective telling people not to answer the cops when they ask them simple questions and to stand there with your arms folded or to walk away. he made it sound like every single cop is out to get black people and the best course of action is to act like an arrogant douche and not provide simple information and be on your way. people are taking these cases and using them as a tool to poison everyone against law enforcement. i dont see what benefit this has. i think this attitude is going to cause alot more problems than it will solve.
i think the take away message from these recent deaths is that people need to stop addressing their issues with the police on the street and handle them in the court. if they are going to arrest you then let them arrest you and take them to court and sue the shit out of the police department. if you have video and you are legit then you will be fine.

I'm not sure which video you watched, but I know there is a shorter 2 minute version and a longer 8 minute version which captured the whole encounter. The chokehold lasted at least 8 seconds and possibly up to 19 seconds because as Garner went down and was surrounded by officers, the view of the officer's chokehold became obscured. Within that period, he pleaded "I can't breathe" repeatedly, at least 5 times. I agree that it was a freak accident and the officer couldn't have known he had an asthma condition, however the chokehold itself was in violation of NYPD policies. The guy leaned over to him as if he was going whisper something in his ear, then sucker choked him immediately to take him down. There was no "put your hands behind your back" or "you're under arrest" uttered giving him a chance to comply before physical force was used. It was basically an argument over what he was doing on that corner. They thought he was vending cigarettes, which he had been known to do before. He and several witnesses who were around stated that he had been breaking up a fight. It was his defiance over being accused of illegally vending and the argument that ensued that lead to the chokehold. On top of the fact that NYPD authorities have themselves stated the chokehold violated policy, the medical examiners who did the autopsy ruled that Garner died as a result of neck compression, NOT asthma attack or cardiac arrest as was suggested by police spokesmen. They (the police) stated he died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, but it appeared by the end of the 8 minute video that he was already dead, right there on the scene as he was unresponsive to anything when the EMT showed up. The EMT checked his pulse (on the scene) and did not administer CPR, probably because there wasn't any point (he didn't have any pulse).
If someone who is not a cop chokes someone else and the cause of death was ruled as being due to neck compression, would you be arguing that the person should not be charged because they only applied the choke for a short time and there's no way they could have known that their victim had a preexisiting medical condition? The fact that someone is an officer doesn't mean EVERYTHING they do while in uniform is in the capacity of an officer. I'm pretty sure that for NYPD officers to perform bank robberies is against their policy too and that there would be no hesitation in prosecuting a bank-robbing officer due to the fact he's a cop, because, unless he was an undercover in some sort of sting operation to bring down the other bank robbers, he wasn't acting in the capacity of an officer when he robbed the bank. I think a safe rule to go by is: when an officer acts outside of police policy and code of conduct, as Eric Garner's choker has done, they are not acting in the capacity of an officer, therefore, there should be no leverage to them being a cop in considering whether and how they should be prosecuted. Otherwise we will continue to have officers who get away with anything, even choking someone to death on cam.