So, I know this shit sounds crazy but

I actually believe in god to an extent. After a family member died, I wanted to think "I'll pray to them, hoping that they can here". This got me praying to god, and somehow things have looked up ever since, so I could hope that the connection is more than a very likley coincidence.

I don't think it was a scam. If it's not real, it's a way of life for olden times to me. Moral code.

I always had a problem with putting my life by it because its not faith in god, its faith in man to actually have had a connection with god, if you get me. I dont trust anyone I dont know enough to influence my entire life.

I actually believe in god to an extent. After a family member died, I wanted to think "I'll pray to them, hoping that they can here". This got me praying to god, and somehow things have looked up ever since, so I could hope that the connection is more than a very likley coincidence.

I don't think it was a scam. If it's not real, it's a way of life for olden times to me. Moral code.

I always had a problem with putting my life by it because its not faith in god, its faith in man to actually have had a connection with god, if you get me. I dont trust anyone I dont know enough to influence my entire life.

[Louie Dawgs]

Originally Posted by Jason

its not a joke or anythin.. but why dont you go read them and find out
the bible contains many different things.. parables.. actual events.. etc
obviously its not just pages talking about nothing.
even if the bible was some sort of scam.. every page in there would mean something.. cus a scam still has to work

on that note.. if the bible is bullshit..it was put together by a brilliant collection of people
the bible is flawless.. there is no way to prove if it is real or fake.. its blind faith.

the bible isn't brilliant, it's full of flaws and the whatnot.

anyway, in reference toward god, here's a rather intresting argument I heard recently in regards toward the judeo-christian god.

here's how it goes.

God is just.

If god is just, then he must treat alike people the same,

for example. If I murder someone, and my neighbor murders someone, then justice would dictate we are both treated the same.

There are varying degrees of faith.

Eventually, somewhere there is a delineation between those that do or do not go to heaven, yet since degrees of faith are varying, the difference in faith between at least one person going to heaven and one person going to hell is small, almost negligible.

If god is just, then he must treat people similar in faith similar. since these two from my example above are similar in faith, yet they receive radically different rewards, god cannot be just.

Just a thought to toy with.

personally, I think god is dead.

[Louie Dawgs]

Originally Posted by Jason

its not a joke or anythin.. but why dont you go read them and find out
the bible contains many different things.. parables.. actual events.. etc
obviously its not just pages talking about nothing.
even if the bible was some sort of scam.. every page in there would mean something.. cus a scam still has to work

on that note.. if the bible is bullshit..it was put together by a brilliant collection of people
the bible is flawless.. there is no way to prove if it is real or fake.. its blind faith.

the bible isn't brilliant, it's full of flaws and the whatnot.

anyway, in reference toward god, here's a rather intresting argument I heard recently in regards toward the judeo-christian god.

here's how it goes.

God is just.

If god is just, then he must treat alike people the same,

for example. If I murder someone, and my neighbor murders someone, then justice would dictate we are both treated the same.

There are varying degrees of faith.

Eventually, somewhere there is a delineation between those that do or do not go to heaven, yet since degrees of faith are varying, the difference in faith between at least one person going to heaven and one person going to hell is small, almost negligible.

If god is just, then he must treat people similar in faith similar. since these two from my example above are similar in faith, yet they receive radically different rewards, god cannot be just.

Just a thought to toy with.

personally, I think god is dead.

[Louie Dawgs]

Originally Posted by UnEtHiCaL

I actually believe in god to an extent. After a family member died, I wanted to think "I'll pray to them, hoping that they can here". This got me praying to god, and somehow things have looked up ever since, so I could hope that the connection is more than a very likley coincidence.

I don't think it was a scam. If it's not real, it's a way of life for olden times to me. Moral code.

I always had a problem with putting my life by it because its not faith in god, its faith in man to actually have had a connection with god, if you get me. I dont trust anyone I dont know enough to influence my entire life.

Religion was a way to understand the universe. I'm not condemning it, I'm just saying that we don't need it to engage our world anymore. God is dead.

[Louie Dawgs]

Originally Posted by UnEtHiCaL

I actually believe in god to an extent. After a family member died, I wanted to think "I'll pray to them, hoping that they can here". This got me praying to god, and somehow things have looked up ever since, so I could hope that the connection is more than a very likley coincidence.

I don't think it was a scam. If it's not real, it's a way of life for olden times to me. Moral code.

I always had a problem with putting my life by it because its not faith in god, its faith in man to actually have had a connection with god, if you get me. I dont trust anyone I dont know enough to influence my entire life.

Religion was a way to understand the universe. I'm not condemning it, I'm just saying that we don't need it to engage our world anymore. God is dead.

[Louie Dawgs]

well um, the creation story? that's a flaw because like...it's not true. The with the earth standing still, the worldwide flood, and the whatnot.

there are plenty of contradictions in the bible. i'm not going to list them here, you can google around and find extensive lists.

We'll just go over a few basic idiocies of christianity. Like, the fact that every word is inspired. You know, even the ones taken from different texts and placed into different translations. Yep.

The fact that christians can't even decide what should or shouldn't go in the bible. You know, because god wants you to hear his word, just not to know which parts of the bible really contain it.

I could go on, but it's idiotic.

[Louie Dawgs]

well um, the creation story? that's a flaw because like...it's not true. The with the earth standing still, the worldwide flood, and the whatnot.

there are plenty of contradictions in the bible. i'm not going to list them here, you can google around and find extensive lists.

We'll just go over a few basic idiocies of christianity. Like, the fact that every word is inspired. You know, even the ones taken from different texts and placed into different translations. Yep.

The fact that christians can't even decide what should or shouldn't go in the bible. You know, because god wants you to hear his word, just not to know which parts of the bible really contain it.

I could go on, but it's idiotic.

[Louie Dawgs]

in regards to Mindleses point, I differ somewhat greatly from Marx and classic communist thought.

in regards to your point student, I disagree. I think that human nature is the reason communism is the hope for the future of humanity.

So I'm going to take you guys through my whole thought process im working with right now.
It's directly related toward this concept of human nature.

Also, I must admit this ideology is far from finished, I still have a lot of work to do with it.

I first should state that I am, unlike Marx a strong believer in the social contract.

In case some of you may not be familiar with this thought process, it goes as such:

First off, the the natural state of man is WAR, whether by force or sheer necessity.

Government is then legitimized through social contract, which is the banding of people together for common good. Or, in more direct terms, INTERDEPENDENCE for EXISTENCE.

Interdependence, that's my main talking point, because that is the most basic and powerful bond that two people can assert between themselves.

Why do I say this? I don't believe in the concept of altruism. I don't believe that it's possible to be selfless, I think that desire and self-want govern and control our every action.

thus, the social contract (interdependence) is the strongest possible bond between people, because it appeals to the most basic wants, the want for self. Self-preservation is the strongest and most basic of these wants.

to a point, these bonds are already encapsulated in existing government. that's why I come to my next point, which is:

EQUALITY IN INTERDEPENDENCE. Or, as you may like to put it, communism.

Why is this?

Continuing on, EQUALITY in INTERDEPENDENCE. Remember, the concept is to progress society, to make the world a better place to live.

In a civilization, which by definition is populated by other people, I believe the greatest (social) achievement possible is to value the people around you, the community. When is happens, we see an decrease in crime, a rise in the social norm, acceptance, ect. ect.

now note, this is (seemingly) in contradiction toward my earlier statement about altruism. No, it's not. When you are EQUAL to somebody, that is when you are EQUALLY INTERDEPENDENT. You matter to that person as much as they do to you.

Your survival from the state of WAR is just as predicated on your survival as it is on his, that's what equality implies.

Communism is the most utilitarian of any governmental system and that what governments about, right? (Unless your a republican )
0
Fire away.


Epically long post.

[Louie Dawgs]

in regards to Mindleses point, I differ somewhat greatly from Marx and classic communist thought.

in regards to your point student, I disagree. I think that human nature is the reason communism is the hope for the future of humanity.

So I'm going to take you guys through my whole thought process im working with right now.
It's directly related toward this concept of human nature.

Also, I must admit this ideology is far from finished, I still have a lot of work to do with it.

I first should state that I am, unlike Marx a strong believer in the social contract.

In case some of you may not be familiar with this thought process, it goes as such:

First off, the the natural state of man is WAR, whether by force or sheer necessity.

Government is then legitimized through social contract, which is the banding of people together for common good. Or, in more direct terms, INTERDEPENDENCE for EXISTENCE.

Interdependence, that's my main talking point, because that is the most basic and powerful bond that two people can assert between themselves.

Why do I say this? I don't believe in the concept of altruism. I don't believe that it's possible to be selfless, I think that desire and self-want govern and control our every action.

thus, the social contract (interdependence) is the strongest possible bond between people, because it appeals to the most basic wants, the want for self. Self-preservation is the strongest and most basic of these wants.

to a point, these bonds are already encapsulated in existing government. that's why I come to my next point, which is:

EQUALITY IN INTERDEPENDENCE. Or, as you may like to put it, communism.

Why is this?

Continuing on, EQUALITY in INTERDEPENDENCE. Remember, the concept is to progress society, to make the world a better place to live.

In a civilization, which by definition is populated by other people, I believe the greatest (social) achievement possible is to value the people around you, the community. When is happens, we see an decrease in crime, a rise in the social norm, acceptance, ect. ect.

now note, this is (seemingly) in contradiction toward my earlier statement about altruism. No, it's not. When you are EQUAL to somebody, that is when you are EQUALLY INTERDEPENDENT. You matter to that person as much as they do to you.

Your survival from the state of WAR is just as predicated on your survival as it is on his, that's what equality implies.

Communism is the most utilitarian of any governmental system and that what governments about, right? (Unless your a republican )
0
Fire away.


Epically long post.

[King John]

Originally Posted by Jason

its not a joke or anythin.. but why dont you go read them and find out
the bible contains many different things.. parables.. actual events.. etc
obviously its not just pages talking about nothing.
even if the bible was some sort of scam.. every page in there would mean something.. cus a scam still has to work

on that note.. if the bible is bullshit..it was put together by a brilliant collection of people
the bible is flawless.. there is no way to prove if it is real or fake.. its blind faith.

lol, that made me laugh.

[King John]

Originally Posted by Jason

its not a joke or anythin.. but why dont you go read them and find out
the bible contains many different things.. parables.. actual events.. etc
obviously its not just pages talking about nothing.
even if the bible was some sort of scam.. every page in there would mean something.. cus a scam still has to work

on that note.. if the bible is bullshit..it was put together by a brilliant collection of people
the bible is flawless.. there is no way to prove if it is real or fake.. its blind faith.

lol, that made me laugh.

[King John]

Originally Posted by Louie Dawgs

in regards to Mindleses point, I differ somewhat greatly from Marx and classic communist thought.

in regards to your point student, I disagree. I think that human nature is the reason communism is the hope for the future of humanity.

So I'm going to take you guys through my whole thought process im working with right now.
It's directly related toward this concept of human nature.

Also, I must admit this ideology is far from finished, I still have a lot of work to do with it.

I first should state that I am, unlike Marx a strong believer in the social contract.

In case some of you may not be familiar with this thought process, it goes as such:

First off, the the natural state of man is WAR, whether by force or sheer necessity.

Government is then legitimized through social contract, which is the banding of people together for common good. Or, in more direct terms, INTERDEPENDENCE for EXISTENCE.

Interdependence, that's my main talking point, because that is the most basic and powerful bond that two people can assert between themselves.

Why do I say this? I don't believe in the concept of altruism. I don't believe that it's possible to be selfless, I think that desire and self-want govern and control our every action.

thus, the social contract (interdependence) is the strongest possible bond between people, because it appeals to the most basic wants, the want for self. Self-preservation is the strongest and most basic of these wants.

to a point, these bonds are already encapsulated in existing government. that's why I come to my next point, which is:

EQUALITY IN INTERDEPENDENCE. Or, as you may like to put it, communism.

Why is this?

Continuing on, EQUALITY in INTERDEPENDENCE. Remember, the concept is to progress society, to make the world a better place to live.

In a civilization, which by definition is populated by other people, I believe the greatest (social) achievement possible is to value the people around you, the community. When is happens, we see an decrease in crime, a rise in the social norm, acceptance, ect. ect.

now note, this is (seemingly) in contradiction toward my earlier statement about altruism. No, it's not. When you are EQUAL to somebody, that is when you are EQUALLY INTERDEPENDENT. You matter to that person as much as they do to you.

Your survival from the state of WAR is just as predicated on your survival as it is on his, that's what equality implies.

Communism is the most utilitarian of any governmental system and that what governments about, right? (Unless your a republican )
0
Fire away.


Epically long post.

See you said it yourself, it seems to contradict itself because it does, if somebody's most basic instinct is self preservation, than the idea that he/she would consider another person as equally as important as him/herself isn't true.

[King John]

Originally Posted by Louie Dawgs

in regards to Mindleses point, I differ somewhat greatly from Marx and classic communist thought.

in regards to your point student, I disagree. I think that human nature is the reason communism is the hope for the future of humanity.

So I'm going to take you guys through my whole thought process im working with right now.
It's directly related toward this concept of human nature.

Also, I must admit this ideology is far from finished, I still have a lot of work to do with it.

I first should state that I am, unlike Marx a strong believer in the social contract.

In case some of you may not be familiar with this thought process, it goes as such:

First off, the the natural state of man is WAR, whether by force or sheer necessity.

Government is then legitimized through social contract, which is the banding of people together for common good. Or, in more direct terms, INTERDEPENDENCE for EXISTENCE.

Interdependence, that's my main talking point, because that is the most basic and powerful bond that two people can assert between themselves.

Why do I say this? I don't believe in the concept of altruism. I don't believe that it's possible to be selfless, I think that desire and self-want govern and control our every action.

thus, the social contract (interdependence) is the strongest possible bond between people, because it appeals to the most basic wants, the want for self. Self-preservation is the strongest and most basic of these wants.

to a point, these bonds are already encapsulated in existing government. that's why I come to my next point, which is:

EQUALITY IN INTERDEPENDENCE. Or, as you may like to put it, communism.

Why is this?

Continuing on, EQUALITY in INTERDEPENDENCE. Remember, the concept is to progress society, to make the world a better place to live.

In a civilization, which by definition is populated by other people, I believe the greatest (social) achievement possible is to value the people around you, the community. When is happens, we see an decrease in crime, a rise in the social norm, acceptance, ect. ect.

now note, this is (seemingly) in contradiction toward my earlier statement about altruism. No, it's not. When you are EQUAL to somebody, that is when you are EQUALLY INTERDEPENDENT. You matter to that person as much as they do to you.

Your survival from the state of WAR is just as predicated on your survival as it is on his, that's what equality implies.

Communism is the most utilitarian of any governmental system and that what governments about, right? (Unless your a republican )
0
Fire away.


Epically long post.

See you said it yourself, it seems to contradict itself because it does, if somebody's most basic instinct is self preservation, than the idea that he/she would consider another person as equally as important as him/herself isn't true.

[Louie Dawgs]

Originally Posted by King John

See you said it yourself, it seems to contradict itself because it does, if somebody's most basic instinct is self preservation, than the idea that he/she would consider another person as equally as important as him/herself isn't true.

the concept is equal interdependence.

Your existence is just as predicated upon theirs is yours.

yea, there is a fundamental flaw here. it's not hard to pick up. I'm working on it .

[Louie Dawgs]

Originally Posted by King John

See you said it yourself, it seems to contradict itself because it does, if somebody's most basic instinct is self preservation, than the idea that he/she would consider another person as equally as important as him/herself isn't true.

the concept is equal interdependence.

Your existence is just as predicated upon theirs is yours.

yea, there is a fundamental flaw here. it's not hard to pick up. I'm working on it .

[PRiiME]

Originally Posted by -ProNto-

wtf? that dosent make sense

if one man has the free will to be able to kill someone, then another man has the free will to be able stop that from happening. christians say that free will is your right to do what YOU want to do. where is man's right to not be killed when somebody attacks them??

thats what pisses me off about christianity (no hate to any christians, im just sayin)
when something good happens, christians say 'god is looking after us.' when something bad happens the rest of the world asks the christians 'how could god let this happen?' and christians say 'well god works in mysterious ways.' its just a cop out

[PRiiME]

Originally Posted by -ProNto-

wtf? that dosent make sense

if one man has the free will to be able to kill someone, then another man has the free will to be able stop that from happening. christians say that free will is your right to do what YOU want to do. where is man's right to not be killed when somebody attacks them??

thats what pisses me off about christianity (no hate to any christians, im just sayin)
when something good happens, christians say 'god is looking after us.' when something bad happens the rest of the world asks the christians 'how could god let this happen?' and christians say 'well god works in mysterious ways.' its just a cop out

[King John]

Originally Posted by Jason

prove me wrong

Well for one the earth isn't 6,000 years old like the bible says, but that one's too easy, here's a question I've never gotten a good answer too. If God is all all knowing, meaning that he knows what we're going to do before we do it, how do we have freewill? If God knows what you're gonna do that means your actions are already predetermined, thus freewill is an illusion. On the other hand if we truly have freewill that means God doesn't know what we're going to do, which means he wouldn't be all knowing. Explain that for me.

[King John]

Originally Posted by Jason

prove me wrong

Well for one the earth isn't 6,000 years old like the bible says, but that one's too easy, here's a question I've never gotten a good answer too. If God is all all knowing, meaning that he knows what we're going to do before we do it, how do we have freewill? If God knows what you're gonna do that means your actions are already predetermined, thus freewill is an illusion. On the other hand if we truly have freewill that means God doesn't know what we're going to do, which means he wouldn't be all knowing. Explain that for me.