Are Atheists doing it wrong?

[NOBLE]

Argue against it. Calling it complete bullocks isn't much of an argument. Tell me specifically which part you disagree with and why.

[NOBLE]

Argue against it. Calling it complete bullocks isn't much of an argument. Tell me specifically which part you disagree with and why.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

To us, everything that exists comes with a concept, no matter our notion of objectivity and how objective we try to be. We never perceive objects directly. We only see concepts or our mind's visualization or attempted reconstructions of them. Therefore, it is hard to argue the existence of something independent of our perception or conceptualization, when in order to know of such an existence itself takes conceptualizing. If you believe that "existence" should be reserved for only things with concrete or material reality, you'll run into problems quickly. You wouldn't be able to say things like love or the number 2 exists. After all, you can't pick up the number 2 or weight it or put it in a bag. There are only instances of and symbolizations of it, but you can't find what we call "two" in material reality. You wouldn't even be able to say that movies exist. If I ask you to go bring me a movie and you brought me a blu-Ray disk copy of Pirates of the Caribbean, like numbers, that wouldn't actually be a "movie" but rather an instance or symbolization of one.

Yes, everything comes with a concept. Sometimes we can invent objects or concepts in our mind. They still don't exist though.

If you have the concept of a business, you don't suddenly have a business. Existence isn't reserved for things that are concrete and solid. War exists for example. Thoughts exist. But to conceptualize isn't to create. Yes there are things beyond our conceptualization or perception that exist, and God may very well be one of those things, but in the event that there isn't a deity, the shear concept alone doesn't will it into existence.

If you wanted to break it down, the benefits and negatives of a deity exist. Someone's life may be changed, good or bad, based on the concept of a deity. But that deity isn't any more in existence because of it.

Another example is perception of people who are no longer here, or the belief in fictional characters. If someone is raised to believe that Columbus was a good guy, that did good things and helped the world...that may be the concept, but that doesn't bring that tale into existence. The reality still exists, and that's the only thing that will truly exist.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

To us, everything that exists comes with a concept, no matter our notion of objectivity and how objective we try to be. We never perceive objects directly. We only see concepts or our mind's visualization or attempted reconstructions of them. Therefore, it is hard to argue the existence of something independent of our perception or conceptualization, when in order to know of such an existence itself takes conceptualizing. If you believe that "existence" should be reserved for only things with concrete or material reality, you'll run into problems quickly. You wouldn't be able to say things like love or the number 2 exists. After all, you can't pick up the number 2 or weight it or put it in a bag. There are only instances of and symbolizations of it, but you can't find what we call "two" in material reality. You wouldn't even be able to say that movies exist. If I ask you to go bring me a movie and you brought me a blu-Ray disk copy of Pirates of the Caribbean, like numbers, that wouldn't actually be a "movie" but rather an instance or symbolization of one.

Yes, everything comes with a concept. Sometimes we can invent objects or concepts in our mind. They still don't exist though.

If you have the concept of a business, you don't suddenly have a business. Existence isn't reserved for things that are concrete and solid. War exists for example. Thoughts exist. But to conceptualize isn't to create. Yes there are things beyond our conceptualization or perception that exist, and God may very well be one of those things, but in the event that there isn't a deity, the shear concept alone doesn't will it into existence.

If you wanted to break it down, the benefits and negatives of a deity exist. Someone's life may be changed, good or bad, based on the concept of a deity. But that deity isn't any more in existence because of it.

Another example is perception of people who are no longer here, or the belief in fictional characters. If someone is raised to believe that Columbus was a good guy, that did good things and helped the world...that may be the concept, but that doesn't bring that tale into existence. The reality still exists, and that's the only thing that will truly exist.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by EtHnic Cleansing

Yes, everything comes with a concept. Sometimes we can invent objects or concepts in our mind. They still don't exist though.

If you have the concept of a business, you don't suddenly have a business. Existence isn't reserved for things that are concrete and solid. War exists for example. Thoughts exist. But to conceptualize isn't to create. Yes there are things beyond our conceptualization or perception that exist, and God may very well be one of those things, but in the event that there isn't a deity, the shear concept alone doesn't will it into existence.

If you wanted to break it down, the benefits and negatives of a deity exist. Someone's life may be changed, good or bad, based on the concept of a deity. But that deity isn't any more in existence because of it.

Another example is perception of people who are no longer here, or the belief in fictional characters. If someone is raised to believe that Columbus was a good guy, that did good things and helped the world...that may be the concept, but that doesn't bring that tale into existence. The reality still exists, and that's the only thing that will truly exist.

You contradict yourself a bit. On one hand, you say we invent objects or concepts in our mind. On the other hand, you say to conceptualize isn't to create. Isn't inventing concepts in the mind the same as conceptualizing, and isn't to invent the same thing as to create? You're right that just by having a concept doesn't mean there's a material reality of what we are conceptualizing. My whole point is that there are different forms of existence and things can be said to have nominal existence. Something that exists nominally doesn't need to have physical existence. Let's take truth, for example. Truth is just a value. It's not a material or concrete object. Would you argue that truth doesn't exist? If not, what would you call it, for example, when people calculate that 2 + 2 equals 4?

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by EtHnic Cleansing

Yes, everything comes with a concept. Sometimes we can invent objects or concepts in our mind. They still don't exist though.

If you have the concept of a business, you don't suddenly have a business. Existence isn't reserved for things that are concrete and solid. War exists for example. Thoughts exist. But to conceptualize isn't to create. Yes there are things beyond our conceptualization or perception that exist, and God may very well be one of those things, but in the event that there isn't a deity, the shear concept alone doesn't will it into existence.

If you wanted to break it down, the benefits and negatives of a deity exist. Someone's life may be changed, good or bad, based on the concept of a deity. But that deity isn't any more in existence because of it.

Another example is perception of people who are no longer here, or the belief in fictional characters. If someone is raised to believe that Columbus was a good guy, that did good things and helped the world...that may be the concept, but that doesn't bring that tale into existence. The reality still exists, and that's the only thing that will truly exist.

You contradict yourself a bit. On one hand, you say we invent objects or concepts in our mind. On the other hand, you say to conceptualize isn't to create. Isn't inventing concepts in the mind the same as conceptualizing, and isn't to invent the same thing as to create? You're right that just by having a concept doesn't mean there's a material reality of what we are conceptualizing. My whole point is that there are different forms of existence and things can be said to have nominal existence. Something that exists nominally doesn't need to have physical existence. Let's take truth, for example. Truth is just a value. It's not a material or concrete object. Would you argue that truth doesn't exist? If not, what would you call it, for example, when people calculate that 2 + 2 equals 4?

Originally Posted by NOBLE

You contradict yourself a bit. On one hand, you say we invent objects or concepts in our mind. On the other hand, you say to conceptualize isn't to create. Isn't inventing concepts in the mind the same as conceptualizing, and isn't to invent the same thing as to create? You're right that just by having a concept doesn't mean there's a material reality of what we are conceptualizing. My whole point is that there are different forms of existence and things can be said to have nominal existence. Something that exists nominally doesn't need to have physical existence. Let's take truth, for example. Truth is just a value. It's not a material or concrete object. Would you argue that truth doesn't exist? If not, what would you call it, for example, when people calculate that 2 + 2 equals 4?

Invert and create have some differences. Both words have some scale. You can create a dragon, it doesn't mean dragons exist.

Concepitalizing something doesn't create it.

Reality doesn't have to be material. "Truth" isn't a material thing, but it exists.

I just kept that in because I legit read through your shit line by line, and then read your example haha. Ironic.

It doesn't have to be something you can grab or hold, it just has to be something real. A concept can be real. Concepts are things on their own. But whatever they are conceptualizing, isn't automatically made reality.

The concept of God is a definitive, real and existing thing.

God itself, we are unsure about.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

You contradict yourself a bit. On one hand, you say we invent objects or concepts in our mind. On the other hand, you say to conceptualize isn't to create. Isn't inventing concepts in the mind the same as conceptualizing, and isn't to invent the same thing as to create? You're right that just by having a concept doesn't mean there's a material reality of what we are conceptualizing. My whole point is that there are different forms of existence and things can be said to have nominal existence. Something that exists nominally doesn't need to have physical existence. Let's take truth, for example. Truth is just a value. It's not a material or concrete object. Would you argue that truth doesn't exist? If not, what would you call it, for example, when people calculate that 2 + 2 equals 4?

Invert and create have some differences. Both words have some scale. You can create a dragon, it doesn't mean dragons exist.

Concepitalizing something doesn't create it.

Reality doesn't have to be material. "Truth" isn't a material thing, but it exists.

I just kept that in because I legit read through your shit line by line, and then read your example haha. Ironic.

It doesn't have to be something you can grab or hold, it just has to be something real. A concept can be real. Concepts are things on their own. But whatever they are conceptualizing, isn't automatically made reality.

The concept of God is a definitive, real and existing thing.

God itself, we are unsure about.

[Esso]

Originally Posted by Rant

If lil Rohan from the block commits a suicide bombing in the name of Allah. Is this not the idea of God having a direct affect on the physical?

So if I think of a bitch with 2 asses and it gets me hard, does that mean a bitch with 2 asses exists?

[Esso]

Originally Posted by Rant

If lil Rohan from the block commits a suicide bombing in the name of Allah. Is this not the idea of God having a direct affect on the physical?

So if I think of a bitch with 2 asses and it gets me hard, does that mean a bitch with 2 asses exists?

Originally Posted by Esso

So if I think of a bitch with 2 asses and it gets me hard, does that mean a bitch with 2 asses exists?

She exists as that thought, yes.

Originally Posted by Esso

So if I think of a bitch with 2 asses and it gets me hard, does that mean a bitch with 2 asses exists?

She exists as that thought, yes.

[Esso]

Originally Posted by Rant

She exists as that thought, yes.

I love thots....especially ones with two asses

[Esso]

Originally Posted by Rant

She exists as that thought, yes.

I love thots....especially ones with two asses

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by EtHnic Cleansing

Invert and create have some differences. Both words have some scale. You can create a dragon, it doesn't mean dragons exist.

Concepitalizing something doesn't create it.

Reality doesn't have to be material. "Truth" isn't a material thing, but it exists.

I just kept that in because I legit read through your shit line by line, and then read your example haha. Ironic.

It doesn't have to be something you can grab or hold, it just has to be something real. A concept can be real. Concepts are things on their own. But whatever they are conceptualizing, isn't automatically made reality.

The concept of God is a definitive, real and existing thing.

God itself, we are unsure about.

cre·ate
krēˈāt/Submit
verb
bring (something) into existence.

If you look up the definition of create, it literally means to bring something into existence. Explain to me how one can go about "creating" dragons and yet it doesn't mean dragons exist.
I'm glad you agree that truth exists despite that it is not a physical object. Earlier when you were saying that God doesn't exist because he (or she) isn't a concrete object, I thought you were meaning to imply that only things that exist physically can be said to exist. Now that we're past that hurdle, you still maintain (correct me if I'm wrong) that actual things are separate from our concept of those things and that we may have concepts of things for which there's no actual (or physical) existence, and that moreover, simply having a conception doesn't mean what we are conceptualizing exists. Is that an accurate description of your argument? If that is the case, I'd ask you to prove that things exist independent of our perception. Give an example of something that exists that we haven't perceived or conceived. If you can't point to such a thing, how do we know that a thing is truly separate from our concept of it?

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by EtHnic Cleansing

Invert and create have some differences. Both words have some scale. You can create a dragon, it doesn't mean dragons exist.

Concepitalizing something doesn't create it.

Reality doesn't have to be material. "Truth" isn't a material thing, but it exists.

I just kept that in because I legit read through your shit line by line, and then read your example haha. Ironic.

It doesn't have to be something you can grab or hold, it just has to be something real. A concept can be real. Concepts are things on their own. But whatever they are conceptualizing, isn't automatically made reality.

The concept of God is a definitive, real and existing thing.

God itself, we are unsure about.

cre·ate
krēˈāt/Submit
verb
bring (something) into existence.

If you look up the definition of create, it literally means to bring something into existence. Explain to me how one can go about "creating" dragons and yet it doesn't mean dragons exist.
I'm glad you agree that truth exists despite that it is not a physical object. Earlier when you were saying that God doesn't exist because he (or she) isn't a concrete object, I thought you were meaning to imply that only things that exist physically can be said to exist. Now that we're past that hurdle, you still maintain (correct me if I'm wrong) that actual things are separate from our concept of those things and that we may have concepts of things for which there's no actual (or physical) existence, and that moreover, simply having a conception doesn't mean what we are conceptualizing exists. Is that an accurate description of your argument? If that is the case, I'd ask you to prove that things exist independent of our perception. Give an example of something that exists that we haven't perceived or conceived. If you can't point to such a thing, how do we know that a thing is truly separate from our concept of it?

[Rain Matrix 2021]

Lol at "or she" ... God's a man. The FATHER The son and the holy spirit


Side note: there is no god. Christianity was made by Jews to control us.


When they fuck with u? Turn the other cheek bro

---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

Yea look it up .. Jews also control the media. They're brainwashing u. U hear what they want u to hear

Read this shit

[Rain Matrix 2021]

Lol at "or she" ... God's a man. The FATHER The son and the holy spirit


Side note: there is no god. Christianity was made by Jews to control us.


When they fuck with u? Turn the other cheek bro

---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

Yea look it up .. Jews also control the media. They're brainwashing u. U hear what they want u to hear

Read this shit

[METH_BARZ]

Christianity is based of paganism

[METH_BARZ]

Christianity is based of paganism