Letsbeef Improvement Proposal

[Rowdy]

Definitely put tournament titles on profiles. Maybe leave Grand Champion, Hall of Fame, & Staff

I've always thought there should be a time period between battles. Similar to boxing to stop a thousand battles a week/day or people just voting for credits. The anticipation dies when a guy's constantly dropping battles.

What if we had a system where you can only battle once a month or week. People would look forward to reading battles from someone they don't see fludding the text/audio arena. And PPV cards would be doper.

^I've always wanted something like this because for example, if EtH has 5-10 open battles, ill get bored of him quickly even though the first one entertained tf out of me.

1 GC per category a year. 1 text, 1 audio.
Secondary titles go to profile.

Remove the track section (or keep it for diss tracks & battle beats only) to free up space on the site.. Guys should be promoting and building their own Soundcloud, YouTube, or whatever platform they have as musician and I think the LB track section is just a waste of plays. I'd rather a person listen on soundcloud than LB which is why my library is deleted.

[Rowdy]

Definitely put tournament titles on profiles. Maybe leave Grand Champion, Hall of Fame, & Staff

I've always thought there should be a time period between battles. Similar to boxing to stop a thousand battles a week/day or people just voting for credits. The anticipation dies when a guy's constantly dropping battles.

What if we had a system where you can only battle once a month or week. People would look forward to reading battles from someone they don't see fludding the text/audio arena. And PPV cards would be doper.

^I've always wanted something like this because for example, if EtH has 5-10 open battles, ill get bored of him quickly even though the first one entertained tf out of me.

1 GC per category a year. 1 text, 1 audio.
Secondary titles go to profile.

Remove the track section (or keep it for diss tracks & battle beats only) to free up space on the site.. Guys should be promoting and building their own Soundcloud, YouTube, or whatever platform they have as musician and I think the LB track section is just a waste of plays. I'd rather a person listen on soundcloud than LB which is why my library is deleted.

[FiNAL WoRD]

Punk pretty much nailed it

[FiNAL WoRD]

Punk pretty much nailed it

[Kiwi Peewee]

I agree with most of what RULE and Punk are saying, and if we’re really getting an overhaul I’m quite excited about what that means for LB.

I do have some minor tweaks on this I’ll suggest later but taking time to think them through for now.

[Kiwi Peewee]

I agree with most of what RULE and Punk are saying, and if we’re really getting an overhaul I’m quite excited about what that means for LB.

I do have some minor tweaks on this I’ll suggest later but taking time to think them through for now.

[Plus1elf]

I'm against the change 5: Audio Battles - Written Only

While many people are clearly bullshitting, as someone who genuinely freestyles I'd appreciate a section for my raps. Freestyling is my favourite thing about rapping, and I shouldn't have to compete against people who wrote their shit out ahead of time and memorized it. Keep the two categories, if people want to cheat, that's on them and their own honour. Besides, you can usually tell anyway.

[Plus1elf]

I'm against the change 5: Audio Battles - Written Only

While many people are clearly bullshitting, as someone who genuinely freestyles I'd appreciate a section for my raps. Freestyling is my favourite thing about rapping, and I shouldn't have to compete against people who wrote their shit out ahead of time and memorized it. Keep the two categories, if people want to cheat, that's on them and their own honour. Besides, you can usually tell anyway.

[Godbody]

6. Cypher Sections Reduced

Audio section closed (Audio cyphers are pretty much tracks right?)

Text section reduced / changed. A solo most votes top 20 list, a solo most recent top 20 list. Thats it.

Audio cyphers are completely broken but I agree with you and Punk on a lot of points

I agree with Plus1elf on the audio shit but most people write their shit and claim its a free anyway

[Godbody]

6. Cypher Sections Reduced

Audio section closed (Audio cyphers are pretty much tracks right?)

Text section reduced / changed. A solo most votes top 20 list, a solo most recent top 20 list. Thats it.

Audio cyphers are completely broken but I agree with you and Punk on a lot of points

I agree with Plus1elf on the audio shit but most people write their shit and claim its a free anyway

[NOBLE]

Thanks for putting some thought into this. I'll add my two pennies in color.

Originally Posted by RULE

This is a list of my proposal to improve Letsbeef from an in-site context.

We know a lot of modifications need to be done as far as coding, mobile-friendly etc etc but this is strictly to improve / make the site more appealing.


1. Usertitles Deleted

So im in two minds over this point, so my proposal is one of these two options:

A) All usertitles, besides staff title & HoF'er are removed, and only titles won as of Jan 2022 onwards will be awarded (This is to work along side a much more reduced tourney schedule which i'll propose later).

B) All usertitles are to receive an expiry period of 5 years. This excludes HoF & staff titles.

A section can be put on a users profile (in place of the award system perhaps) to permanently display usertitles.

I think when you see 20+ people with 5 titles apiece it reduces the desire to win them. When i started on this site 5% of users had titles, now it seems like 50% do.
I lean more towards option B here, except instead of having a five-year expiration period, I think all titles should be temporary and transferred whenever a new person wins that same tournament. So instead of winning the GC title and keeping it for five years, you keep the GC title until somebody else wins the next GC. That way, there is only one person wearing the GC title on the site at a time (text or audio). The site might not even be around in the next five years, so having a five-year expiration date may be too optimistic.

2. Reduced Tournament Schedule

I think we should strip it back to the basics. Two tournament max a year, One a Grand Championship perhaps?

I think we need tournaments to become more special and unique. If you have one / two every month it gets too much.

I think one tournament a year should definitely have a cash prize.
Agreed.

3. Forum Cleanse

Ive started this discussion here: https://www.letsbeef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172808

Strip the site back, make less forums, less clutter.
Agreed.

4. Close the Unranked & Exclusive Battle Sections

Again, too much clutter, and never used.
Agreed.

5. Audio Battles - Written Only

Freestyle battles are generally abused i find, let's make all battles officially written. Less drama that way.

I get where you're coming from, but I wouldn't frame it as a "written only" mandate. Some people are still going to freestyle, but you can let them know that it's on them to work out with their opponent whether they both agree to have a freestyle only battle, and that it is not something the staff will enforce as to whether or not someone is bringing a pre-written to a freestyle. In other words, "freestyle at your own risk" rather than saying you must do "writtens only."
6. Cypher Sections Reduced

Audio section closed (Audio cyphers are pretty much tracks right?)

Text section reduced / changed. A solo most votes top 20 list, a solo most recent top 20 list. Thats it.

Agreed.
7. Rankings Reset

Again im a little torn about this, but i think as of Dec 31st 2021 the ranking should be frozen (and moved somewhere for prosperity, HoF perhaps?) but ultimately reset as of Jan 1st 2022 to encourage the active members to get involved.
Don't the rankings already reset seasonally? From what I understand, the current way people are ranked is somewhat based on ELO, which would make the more recent rankings more valid than older rankings from years ago. I think there is value in the history that comes with the all-time rankings, and I don't know if that is outweighed by whatever there is to be gained by completely erasing them. Having them there as a goalpost of something to surpass can also serve to encourage the active members to get involved. I'm against this. I don't think what you will gain outweighs what you lose.

8. Ratings Removed on Battles & Tracks

Everyone rates every track a 10, every cypher a ten etc etc, lets get rid of them. I think an upvote / downvote system would be just as effective.

And with battles, i think you should vote for a winner only. Rating i think are redundant when an expo is already required.
I can live with this change

9. No Title / Name Reinstation Upon Account Deletion

Simply - If you request your account is deleted, you lose the username and titles permanently. Deleting accounts is a massive issue for the site, i think we need to curb the occurrence of it as much as possible.
Agreed.
Perhaps signing a disclaimer upon account registration would help.



Have a think and drop your feedback on these points. There is still time to save LB, but perhaps some bold actions are needed.

1/

In addition to these changes, I think the staff should be drastically reduced and trimmed as well. The only mod I would consider adequately active is Kiwi, and I don't even know how active he is these days. You guys might also want to review your infraction/punishment system, because I see a lot of bans when there is barely anybody here. I'm not saying to lower your standards as far as what you let slide, but reconsider the severity in light of how active the overall site is.

[NOBLE]

Thanks for putting some thought into this. I'll add my two pennies in color.

Originally Posted by RULE

This is a list of my proposal to improve Letsbeef from an in-site context.

We know a lot of modifications need to be done as far as coding, mobile-friendly etc etc but this is strictly to improve / make the site more appealing.


1. Usertitles Deleted

So im in two minds over this point, so my proposal is one of these two options:

A) All usertitles, besides staff title & HoF'er are removed, and only titles won as of Jan 2022 onwards will be awarded (This is to work along side a much more reduced tourney schedule which i'll propose later).

B) All usertitles are to receive an expiry period of 5 years. This excludes HoF & staff titles.

A section can be put on a users profile (in place of the award system perhaps) to permanently display usertitles.

I think when you see 20+ people with 5 titles apiece it reduces the desire to win them. When i started on this site 5% of users had titles, now it seems like 50% do.
I lean more towards option B here, except instead of having a five-year expiration period, I think all titles should be temporary and transferred whenever a new person wins that same tournament. So instead of winning the GC title and keeping it for five years, you keep the GC title until somebody else wins the next GC. That way, there is only one person wearing the GC title on the site at a time (text or audio). The site might not even be around in the next five years, so having a five-year expiration date may be too optimistic.

2. Reduced Tournament Schedule

I think we should strip it back to the basics. Two tournament max a year, One a Grand Championship perhaps?

I think we need tournaments to become more special and unique. If you have one / two every month it gets too much.

I think one tournament a year should definitely have a cash prize.
Agreed.

3. Forum Cleanse

Ive started this discussion here: https://www.letsbeef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172808

Strip the site back, make less forums, less clutter.
Agreed.

4. Close the Unranked & Exclusive Battle Sections

Again, too much clutter, and never used.
Agreed.

5. Audio Battles - Written Only

Freestyle battles are generally abused i find, let's make all battles officially written. Less drama that way.

I get where you're coming from, but I wouldn't frame it as a "written only" mandate. Some people are still going to freestyle, but you can let them know that it's on them to work out with their opponent whether they both agree to have a freestyle only battle, and that it is not something the staff will enforce as to whether or not someone is bringing a pre-written to a freestyle. In other words, "freestyle at your own risk" rather than saying you must do "writtens only."
6. Cypher Sections Reduced

Audio section closed (Audio cyphers are pretty much tracks right?)

Text section reduced / changed. A solo most votes top 20 list, a solo most recent top 20 list. Thats it.

Agreed.
7. Rankings Reset

Again im a little torn about this, but i think as of Dec 31st 2021 the ranking should be frozen (and moved somewhere for prosperity, HoF perhaps?) but ultimately reset as of Jan 1st 2022 to encourage the active members to get involved.
Don't the rankings already reset seasonally? From what I understand, the current way people are ranked is somewhat based on ELO, which would make the more recent rankings more valid than older rankings from years ago. I think there is value in the history that comes with the all-time rankings, and I don't know if that is outweighed by whatever there is to be gained by completely erasing them. Having them there as a goalpost of something to surpass can also serve to encourage the active members to get involved. I'm against this. I don't think what you will gain outweighs what you lose.

8. Ratings Removed on Battles & Tracks

Everyone rates every track a 10, every cypher a ten etc etc, lets get rid of them. I think an upvote / downvote system would be just as effective.

And with battles, i think you should vote for a winner only. Rating i think are redundant when an expo is already required.
I can live with this change

9. No Title / Name Reinstation Upon Account Deletion

Simply - If you request your account is deleted, you lose the username and titles permanently. Deleting accounts is a massive issue for the site, i think we need to curb the occurrence of it as much as possible.
Agreed.
Perhaps signing a disclaimer upon account registration would help.



Have a think and drop your feedback on these points. There is still time to save LB, but perhaps some bold actions are needed.

1/

In addition to these changes, I think the staff should be drastically reduced and trimmed as well. The only mod I would consider adequately active is Kiwi, and I don't even know how active he is these days. You guys might also want to review your infraction/punishment system, because I see a lot of bans when there is barely anybody here. I'm not saying to lower your standards as far as what you let slide, but reconsider the severity in light of how active the overall site is.

[The Ghost of Freak]

Originally Posted by RULE

This is a list of my proposal to improve Letsbeef from an in-site context.

We know a lot of modifications need to be done as far as coding, mobile-friendly etc etc but this is strictly to improve / make the site more appealing.


1. Usertitles Deleted

So im in two minds over this point, so my proposal is one of these two options:

A) & B) are both dumb ideas, not to shit on your parade. There has been no real issue with titles. They are inconsequential bragging rights in a community that self imploded due to the toxicity of insecure, angry individuals looking to form cliques and act like ass hats in anonymity. Titles only became accumulated by certain individuals in the last few years because the overall usership of the site was down due to high school girl clique behavior and associated poor voting behavior and lack of appreciation of different styles of writing and participation.


"I think when you see 20+ people with 5 titles apiece it reduces the desire to win them. When i started on this site 5% of users had titles, now it seems like 50% do." This is only true because nobody is interested in this site anymore as it provides very little enjoyable means of participation. Keep reading and this will make more sense.


2. Reduced Tournament Schedule

I think we should strip it back to the basics. Two tournament max a year, One a Grand Championship perhaps? YES, this but make it 5: GC, Scheme, Concept, Tag Team and Topicals. This is da wae.

I think we need tournaments to become more special and unique. If you have one / two every month it gets too much. YES, just, yes.

I think one tournament a year should definitely have a cash prize. YES, the GC in Audio and Text.


3. Forum Cleanse

Ive started this discussion here: https://www.letsbeef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172808

Strip the site back, make less forums, less clutter. YES, the forums are meaningless piles of crap data that should be auto deleted after two years or less. If you are looking at 2+ year old forum posts... you gotta ask yourself why the fuck you are doing that.


4. Close the Unranked & Exclusive Battle Sections

Again, too much clutter, and never used. NAILED IT! YES, ez!


5. Audio Battles - Written Only

Freestyle battles are generally abused i find, let's make all battles officially written. Less drama that way. AS AN AUDIO-LEANING USER, I CONCUR, BUT... see next response!


6. Cypher Sections Reduced

Audio section closed (Audio cyphers are pretty much tracks right?) NO, NOT QUITE RIGHT! The audio cypher section should not just be closed, it should be transitioned into what use to be a major activity associated with the site, which was live cyphers (historically on tinychat and now fit for discord)

Text section reduced / changed. A solo most votes top 20 list, a solo most recent top 20 list. Thats it.

SURE
7. Rankings Reset

Again im a little torn about this, but i think as of Dec 31st 2021 the ranking should be frozen (and moved somewhere for prosperity *POSTERITY* (Holy shit, dude, the British invented the English language. LMAO... GOTTEM, HoF perhaps?) but ultimately reset as of Jan 1st 2022 to encourage the active members to get involved.
SURE, whatever

8. Ratings Removed on Battles & Tracks

Everyone rates every track a 10, every cypher a ten etc etc, lets get rid of them. I think an upvote / downvote system would be just as effective. UP, DOWN & MEH system

And with battles, i think you should vote for a winner only. Rating i think are redundant when an expo is already required. AGREED, and bring back FVC


9. No Title / Name Reinstation Upon Account Deletion

Simply - If you request your account is deleted, you lose the username and titles permanently. Deleting accounts is a massive issue for the site, i think we need to curb the occurrence of it as much as possible.

MEH, okay.

Perhaps signing a disclaimer upon account registration would help.



Have a think and drop your feedback on these points. There is still time to save LB, but perhaps some bold actions are needed.

1/

[The Ghost of Freak]

Originally Posted by RULE

This is a list of my proposal to improve Letsbeef from an in-site context.

We know a lot of modifications need to be done as far as coding, mobile-friendly etc etc but this is strictly to improve / make the site more appealing.


1. Usertitles Deleted

So im in two minds over this point, so my proposal is one of these two options:

A) & B) are both dumb ideas, not to shit on your parade. There has been no real issue with titles. They are inconsequential bragging rights in a community that self imploded due to the toxicity of insecure, angry individuals looking to form cliques and act like ass hats in anonymity. Titles only became accumulated by certain individuals in the last few years because the overall usership of the site was down due to high school girl clique behavior and associated poor voting behavior and lack of appreciation of different styles of writing and participation.


"I think when you see 20+ people with 5 titles apiece it reduces the desire to win them. When i started on this site 5% of users had titles, now it seems like 50% do." This is only true because nobody is interested in this site anymore as it provides very little enjoyable means of participation. Keep reading and this will make more sense.


2. Reduced Tournament Schedule

I think we should strip it back to the basics. Two tournament max a year, One a Grand Championship perhaps? YES, this but make it 5: GC, Scheme, Concept, Tag Team and Topicals. This is da wae.

I think we need tournaments to become more special and unique. If you have one / two every month it gets too much. YES, just, yes.

I think one tournament a year should definitely have a cash prize. YES, the GC in Audio and Text.


3. Forum Cleanse

Ive started this discussion here: https://www.letsbeef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172808

Strip the site back, make less forums, less clutter. YES, the forums are meaningless piles of crap data that should be auto deleted after two years or less. If you are looking at 2+ year old forum posts... you gotta ask yourself why the fuck you are doing that.


4. Close the Unranked & Exclusive Battle Sections

Again, too much clutter, and never used. NAILED IT! YES, ez!


5. Audio Battles - Written Only

Freestyle battles are generally abused i find, let's make all battles officially written. Less drama that way. AS AN AUDIO-LEANING USER, I CONCUR, BUT... see next response!


6. Cypher Sections Reduced

Audio section closed (Audio cyphers are pretty much tracks right?) NO, NOT QUITE RIGHT! The audio cypher section should not just be closed, it should be transitioned into what use to be a major activity associated with the site, which was live cyphers (historically on tinychat and now fit for discord)

Text section reduced / changed. A solo most votes top 20 list, a solo most recent top 20 list. Thats it.

SURE
7. Rankings Reset

Again im a little torn about this, but i think as of Dec 31st 2021 the ranking should be frozen (and moved somewhere for prosperity *POSTERITY* (Holy shit, dude, the British invented the English language. LMAO... GOTTEM, HoF perhaps?) but ultimately reset as of Jan 1st 2022 to encourage the active members to get involved.
SURE, whatever

8. Ratings Removed on Battles & Tracks

Everyone rates every track a 10, every cypher a ten etc etc, lets get rid of them. I think an upvote / downvote system would be just as effective. UP, DOWN & MEH system

And with battles, i think you should vote for a winner only. Rating i think are redundant when an expo is already required. AGREED, and bring back FVC


9. No Title / Name Reinstation Upon Account Deletion

Simply - If you request your account is deleted, you lose the username and titles permanently. Deleting accounts is a massive issue for the site, i think we need to curb the occurrence of it as much as possible.

MEH, okay.

Perhaps signing a disclaimer upon account registration would help.



Have a think and drop your feedback on these points. There is still time to save LB, but perhaps some bold actions are needed.

1/

[EtH]

I genuinely am surprised you guys are taken into this so easily.

This is literally a 14 year old forum website, with absolutely zero change to the design or functionality incoming, and absolutely zero money/work going into recruitment and advertising.

Literally not a single thing mentioned in this thread changes the site in the slightest.

PS. "Deleting accounts is a massive issue for the site, i think we need to curb the occurrence of it as much as possible" LOL.

[EtH]

I genuinely am surprised you guys are taken into this so easily.

This is literally a 14 year old forum website, with absolutely zero change to the design or functionality incoming, and absolutely zero money/work going into recruitment and advertising.

Literally not a single thing mentioned in this thread changes the site in the slightest.

PS. "Deleting accounts is a massive issue for the site, i think we need to curb the occurrence of it as much as possible" LOL.

[Óðinn]

Agree with most of this but i'm on the fence with wiping peoples records though, like you mentioned moving somewhere else, how about keeping them on the person profile page and instead of having the exclusive rankings that used to also show on a persons page, use that spot (with exclusive battles being removed) to show the members new rank per the reset?

So on the left of their pro-page will display their rankings from sign up to reset and then beside that on the right their new/current rankings...?

As for titles people have won, can keep them on their pro-page as well and have them removed from forums posts and battles?

Other than that, pretty solid.

[Óðinn]

Agree with most of this but i'm on the fence with wiping peoples records though, like you mentioned moving somewhere else, how about keeping them on the person profile page and instead of having the exclusive rankings that used to also show on a persons page, use that spot (with exclusive battles being removed) to show the members new rank per the reset?

So on the left of their pro-page will display their rankings from sign up to reset and then beside that on the right their new/current rankings...?

As for titles people have won, can keep them on their pro-page as well and have them removed from forums posts and battles?

Other than that, pretty solid.

[LadyKarma]

From my experience, the site puts pressure on new talent to keep it active, while simultaneously treating them as if they are insignificant .. just my 2 cents

[LadyKarma]

From my experience, the site puts pressure on new talent to keep it active, while simultaneously treating them as if they are insignificant .. just my 2 cents