Changes I'd like to see

[Kiwi Peewee]

The site has been mired in controversy for days now, which is understandably taking up the time and energy of the staff. When the current drama is resolved, I think a number of changes are necessary in order to prevent further issues arising so we can all focus on positive things, like me winning the upcoming GC, instead of constant negatives and scandals. Here are my suggestions; most are unrelated to the current drama but in general I think they would make the site less affected by cheating:

1. Stop hiding staff votes. I have no idea why staff votes are currently hidden, it just creates tension and confusion for everyone else and removes transparency among staff voting (which isn't currently an issue but it's best to prevent it ever being so). Staff should be setting an example for the rest of the site with their votes, not keeping them secret and unaccountable.

2. Stop accounts popping back after years of inactivity to vote on important battles. The solution to this is simple in my opinion. If battling in a tournament is set to be determined on meeting a voting quota in the previous months, so should voting in one. If people could only vote on tournament battles once they'd voted a certain number of times in the current or previous season, that would prevent all of these ridiculous instances where someones buddies (or multis) return to the site after years away just to drop a vote and log off.

3. Redefine the FVC. Since the new voting badges system, I think that quantity of votes should no longer be considered the FVC's purpose. We are currently seeing a whole load of new incentives to vote more (tournament entry, cool badges, Auto's competition etc). I think the FVC should focus on having high-quality voters who make sure to cover every important battle and then are pushed to vote more, but with quality over quantity being the goal. When quantity is your #1 priority you end up with inexperienced voters with a high VP swaying battles, which is the opposite of the FVC's purpose.

4. Officially strip Row's titles (and award them to the finalists he cheated). I don't know a huge deal about Row, but I know that he was caught cheating in 1 final and the result was reversed, and there seems to be pretty concrete proof he did likewise in his other wins (i.e. the GC against Bleu). If he were officially no longer recognised, this precedent could be carried forward that cheating causes someone to lose all their titles, which adds a much weightier deterrent than a ban that may or may not last.

5. Make new accounts start with 0 VP for the first few days/weeks until they become familiar with LB. It isn't their fault that they don't know what they're doing, but it also isn't the fault of battlers who might lose because of it. If some sort of site-greeters program was in place to help guide them and teach them this it would really shorten the length of time this was necessary. (This would also stop people from making new multi accounts just to vote on their battles)

6. Have more staff. Idk if the current process is going to add 1 or 2 new staff members, but if it's only adding 1, I don't think that's enough. Basically this whole month Rai has clearly been extremely busy irl, which is totally fine and to be expected. This has meant that since 2FUEL stepped down, RULE has been basically the only active staff member, and there's a limit to how much time he can be online every day. If there was 1 more staff member they would hopefully (due to presumed time-zone differences) act like shift workers, each covering part of the day. However, we'd still only have 1 online staff member the majority of the time. In the case of a situation that needs to be addressed urgently, this means that that staff member must be the one to deal with it, even if they have a conflict of interest or its not their area of expertise. I still trust them to handle it, but it's much better if we have multiple staff online most of the time so this isn't an issue.



This isn't a list of complaints or an attack on how things are currently running, it's just things I'd like to see to make things better in the future. I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this, especially @Autograph @Rieper @Manhattan @IAmFlow and anyone else in the running to be moderator (sorry if I missed anyone). Feel free to disagree with anything I have to say but please give reasons why. Also anyone else with ideas for changes please raise them.

[Kiwi Peewee]

The site has been mired in controversy for days now, which is understandably taking up the time and energy of the staff. When the current drama is resolved, I think a number of changes are necessary in order to prevent further issues arising so we can all focus on positive things, like me winning the upcoming GC, instead of constant negatives and scandals. Here are my suggestions; most are unrelated to the current drama but in general I think they would make the site less affected by cheating:

1. Stop hiding staff votes. I have no idea why staff votes are currently hidden, it just creates tension and confusion for everyone else and removes transparency among staff voting (which isn't currently an issue but it's best to prevent it ever being so). Staff should be setting an example for the rest of the site with their votes, not keeping them secret and unaccountable.

2. Stop accounts popping back after years of inactivity to vote on important battles. The solution to this is simple in my opinion. If battling in a tournament is set to be determined on meeting a voting quota in the previous months, so should voting in one. If people could only vote on tournament battles once they'd voted a certain number of times in the current or previous season, that would prevent all of these ridiculous instances where someones buddies (or multis) return to the site after years away just to drop a vote and log off.

3. Redefine the FVC. Since the new voting badges system, I think that quantity of votes should no longer be considered the FVC's purpose. We are currently seeing a whole load of new incentives to vote more (tournament entry, cool badges, Auto's competition etc). I think the FVC should focus on having high-quality voters who make sure to cover every important battle and then are pushed to vote more, but with quality over quantity being the goal. When quantity is your #1 priority you end up with inexperienced voters with a high VP swaying battles, which is the opposite of the FVC's purpose.

4. Officially strip Row's titles (and award them to the finalists he cheated). I don't know a huge deal about Row, but I know that he was caught cheating in 1 final and the result was reversed, and there seems to be pretty concrete proof he did likewise in his other wins (i.e. the GC against Bleu). If he were officially no longer recognised, this precedent could be carried forward that cheating causes someone to lose all their titles, which adds a much weightier deterrent than a ban that may or may not last.

5. Make new accounts start with 0 VP for the first few days/weeks until they become familiar with LB. It isn't their fault that they don't know what they're doing, but it also isn't the fault of battlers who might lose because of it. If some sort of site-greeters program was in place to help guide them and teach them this it would really shorten the length of time this was necessary. (This would also stop people from making new multi accounts just to vote on their battles)

6. Have more staff. Idk if the current process is going to add 1 or 2 new staff members, but if it's only adding 1, I don't think that's enough. Basically this whole month Rai has clearly been extremely busy irl, which is totally fine and to be expected. This has meant that since 2FUEL stepped down, RULE has been basically the only active staff member, and there's a limit to how much time he can be online every day. If there was 1 more staff member they would hopefully (due to presumed time-zone differences) act like shift workers, each covering part of the day. However, we'd still only have 1 online staff member the majority of the time. In the case of a situation that needs to be addressed urgently, this means that that staff member must be the one to deal with it, even if they have a conflict of interest or its not their area of expertise. I still trust them to handle it, but it's much better if we have multiple staff online most of the time so this isn't an issue.



This isn't a list of complaints or an attack on how things are currently running, it's just things I'd like to see to make things better in the future. I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this, especially @Autograph @Rieper @Manhattan @IAmFlow and anyone else in the running to be moderator (sorry if I missed anyone). Feel free to disagree with anything I have to say but please give reasons why. Also anyone else with ideas for changes please raise them.

excellent thread. i feel there is a lot more that could be added, but this is solid.

excellent thread. i feel there is a lot more that could be added, but this is solid.

[TradeMarked]

1, Staff votes are probably hidden to prevent backlash - such as people crying about Favoritism. And they would.

2, There are only 2 people that have been gone for years and is now logged on (I am one of them) and people that have been associated with this site for many years and has done a lot for this site should be able to (just log on and vote wherever they please) Except in a Main Tournament. So i somewhat agree on that one.

3, That is where the FVC comes in, You aren't here to only vote, you are somewhat like a mod. Your job is to drop educated votes and make sure no one else is "Swaying votes".

4, I Don't to much know about that - No Comment.

5, It's mainly new accounts doing the voting. And it use to be you started out with 0 Voting Power until after your first battle was over.

6, They can't just pick a random person to be a mod. Otherwise, people would be getting hate banned. That is a process that takes time. They use to have a voter thread, We would vote for who we think should be mod, but ultimately it's the Admins choice. And since you voice all of these opinions about what's wrong with Letsbeef, Why don't you do something to actually improve it. Because by y'all dropping 1000 threads saying basically the same thing. It is cutting into the "Only Mods" time that they are available.

I'm not trying to be an asshole (even though I am) but we can't expect 1 or 2 people to run a whole site especially when they have to read all of this every 5 minutes. Take it one step at a time. Slow boogie homie. @Kiwi Peewee

[TradeMarked]

1, Staff votes are probably hidden to prevent backlash - such as people crying about Favoritism. And they would.

2, There are only 2 people that have been gone for years and is now logged on (I am one of them) and people that have been associated with this site for many years and has done a lot for this site should be able to (just log on and vote wherever they please) Except in a Main Tournament. So i somewhat agree on that one.

3, That is where the FVC comes in, You aren't here to only vote, you are somewhat like a mod. Your job is to drop educated votes and make sure no one else is "Swaying votes".

4, I Don't to much know about that - No Comment.

5, It's mainly new accounts doing the voting. And it use to be you started out with 0 Voting Power until after your first battle was over.

6, They can't just pick a random person to be a mod. Otherwise, people would be getting hate banned. That is a process that takes time. They use to have a voter thread, We would vote for who we think should be mod, but ultimately it's the Admins choice. And since you voice all of these opinions about what's wrong with Letsbeef, Why don't you do something to actually improve it. Because by y'all dropping 1000 threads saying basically the same thing. It is cutting into the "Only Mods" time that they are available.

I'm not trying to be an asshole (even though I am) but we can't expect 1 or 2 people to run a whole site especially when they have to read all of this every 5 minutes. Take it one step at a time. Slow boogie homie. @Kiwi Peewee

[EtH]

Personally I remember thinking accusations to Row which led to his current disappearance were fairly questionable and were almost entirely spearheaded by Gutz, someone who later permabanned members for annoying him.

Whatever you guys want to say about Row, you didn't really say it when he was here. After the topical, he was fully accepted back, was an administrator, won championships.

It has been incorrectly framed that "paying for votes" has a single thing to do with his current absence, and it does not.

[EtH]

Personally I remember thinking accusations to Row which led to his current disappearance were fairly questionable and were almost entirely spearheaded by Gutz, someone who later permabanned members for annoying him.

Whatever you guys want to say about Row, you didn't really say it when he was here. After the topical, he was fully accepted back, was an administrator, won championships.

It has been incorrectly framed that "paying for votes" has a single thing to do with his current absence, and it does not.

Originally Posted by EtH

Personally I remember thinking accusations to Row which led to his current disappearance were fairly questionable and were almost entirely spearheaded by Gutz, someone who later permabanned members for annoying him.

Whatever you guys want to say about Row, you didn't really say it when he was here. After the topical, he was fully accepted back, was an administrator, won championships.

It has been incorrectly framed that "paying for votes" has a single thing to do with his current absence, and it does not.

now i question every bit of "history" i learned from you. lmfao

seul called row out for cheating before i was ever mod. huge thread. punk defended row, everybody clowned on row. pretty sure you were there.

when i was mod, we all had many talks about row and what to do. i did spend a lot of time trying to catch him slipping, and finally did via IM. i sent the screen to everyone in the staff forums, noble admitted it looked very damning, then row deleted his accounts.

Originally Posted by EtH

Personally I remember thinking accusations to Row which led to his current disappearance were fairly questionable and were almost entirely spearheaded by Gutz, someone who later permabanned members for annoying him.

Whatever you guys want to say about Row, you didn't really say it when he was here. After the topical, he was fully accepted back, was an administrator, won championships.

It has been incorrectly framed that "paying for votes" has a single thing to do with his current absence, and it does not.

now i question every bit of "history" i learned from you. lmfao

seul called row out for cheating before i was ever mod. huge thread. punk defended row, everybody clowned on row. pretty sure you were there.

when i was mod, we all had many talks about row and what to do. i did spend a lot of time trying to catch him slipping, and finally did via IM. i sent the screen to everyone in the staff forums, noble admitted it looked very damning, then row deleted his accounts.

[TradeMarked]

I'm still stuck on the fact that half of you were ever mods to begin with. And I'm not saying in a fucked up way. I just don't understand how peoples here less than a year and make mod or admin. And then lose it in the same month/year. That's sort of a question/Statement.

[TradeMarked]

I'm still stuck on the fact that half of you were ever mods to begin with. And I'm not saying in a fucked up way. I just don't understand how peoples here less than a year and make mod or admin. And then lose it in the same month/year. That's sort of a question/Statement.

[RULE]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

1. Stop hiding staff votes. I have no idea why staff votes are currently hidden, it just creates tension and confusion for everyone else and removes transparency among staff voting (which isn't currently an issue but it's best to prevent it ever being so). Staff should be setting an example for the rest of the site with their votes, not keeping them secret and unaccountable.

Completely agree, i'd have no problem with my vote being revealed. However i think the reason for this is that staff comments are visible to people who havent voted yet. Some if someone views a battle and sees RULE voted for Kiwi, it might influence there vote. Which is why we masked votes to being with. So UNLESS its possible to have mod comments only shown, but mod votes with comments NOT shown, it wont be possible.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

2. Stop accounts popping back after years of inactivity to vote on important battles. The solution to this is simple in my opinion. If battling in a tournament is set to be determined on meeting a voting quota in the previous months, so should voting in one. If people could only vote on tournament battles once they'd voted a certain number of times in the current or previous season, that would prevent all of these ridiculous instances where someones buddies (or multis) return to the site after years away just to drop a vote and log off.

Again throughly agree with this. Howabout anyone without a bronze voting badge cannot vote on tournament / PPV battles? This might cause a SLIGHT issue in the first week of every season, but beyond that a good suggestion. In fact i think i will impliment this if the feedback is positive.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

3. Redefine the FVC. Since the new voting badges system, I think that quantity of votes should no longer be considered the FVC's purpose. We are currently seeing a whole load of new incentives to vote more (tournament entry, cool badges, Auto's competition etc). I think the FVC should focus on having high-quality voters who make sure to cover every important battle and then are pushed to vote more, but with quality over quantity being the goal. When quantity is your #1 priority you end up with inexperienced voters with a high VP swaying battles, which is the opposite of the FVC's purpose.

Voting is opinion based. One person will ike different things but i will agree that i (personally) have found a number of FVC votes veryyyyy difficult to agree with. FVC is very high on the priority list and will be a big part of the new moderator appointment i think.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

4. Officially strip Row's titles (and award them to the finalists he cheated). I don't know a huge deal about Row, but I know that he was caught cheating in 1 final and the result was reversed, and there seems to be pretty concrete proof he did likewise in his other wins (i.e. the GC against Bleu). If he were officially no longer recognised, this precedent could be carried forward that cheating causes someone to lose all their titles, which adds a much weightier deterrent than a ban that may or may not last.

Anyone PROVEN to of cheated during a tournament they won WILL be stripped. But i will only accept PROOF. Not the fact that they have cheated before. I need to know that they cheated at THAT time.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

5. Make new accounts start with 0 VP for the first few days/weeks until they become familiar with LB. It isn't their fault that they don't know what they're doing, but it also isn't the fault of battlers who might lose because of it. If some sort of site-greeters program was in place to help guide them and teach them this it would really shorten the length of time this was necessary. (This would also stop people from making new multi accounts just to vote on their battles)

Would be far too hard to manage this. And with the mixture of voting threads, voting badges and & FVC there shouldnt be battles being decided by uneducated voters.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

6. Have more staff. Idk if the current process is going to add 1 or 2 new staff members, but if it's only adding 1, I don't think that's enough. Basically this whole month Rai has clearly been extremely busy irl, which is totally fine and to be expected. This has meant that since 2FUEL stepped down, RULE has been basically the only active staff member, and there's a limit to how much time he can be online every day. If there was 1 more staff member they would hopefully (due to presumed time-zone differences) act like shift workers, each covering part of the day. However, we'd still only have 1 online staff member the majority of the time. In the case of a situation that needs to be addressed urgently, this means that that staff member must be the one to deal with it, even if they have a conflict of interest or its not their area of expertise. I still trust them to handle it, but it's much better if we have multiple staff online most of the time so this isn't an issue.

Given how many issues there has been in the past, X is understandable reluctant to bring too many people into the fold. I have been made Head Moderator to be able to oversee the mods to ensure this doesnt happen. X would like 1 more moderator, i would like two. We have discussed this (and continue to) but at the end of the day we've gone from some seriously dark times to a big resurgence lately and we have to make sure we get this right. Believe me when i say me and X have spoken about new moderators daily since Fuel stepped down.


Some great points here Kiwi. Look forward to hearing the feedback.

[RULE]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

1. Stop hiding staff votes. I have no idea why staff votes are currently hidden, it just creates tension and confusion for everyone else and removes transparency among staff voting (which isn't currently an issue but it's best to prevent it ever being so). Staff should be setting an example for the rest of the site with their votes, not keeping them secret and unaccountable.

Completely agree, i'd have no problem with my vote being revealed. However i think the reason for this is that staff comments are visible to people who havent voted yet. Some if someone views a battle and sees RULE voted for Kiwi, it might influence there vote. Which is why we masked votes to being with. So UNLESS its possible to have mod comments only shown, but mod votes with comments NOT shown, it wont be possible.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

2. Stop accounts popping back after years of inactivity to vote on important battles. The solution to this is simple in my opinion. If battling in a tournament is set to be determined on meeting a voting quota in the previous months, so should voting in one. If people could only vote on tournament battles once they'd voted a certain number of times in the current or previous season, that would prevent all of these ridiculous instances where someones buddies (or multis) return to the site after years away just to drop a vote and log off.

Again throughly agree with this. Howabout anyone without a bronze voting badge cannot vote on tournament / PPV battles? This might cause a SLIGHT issue in the first week of every season, but beyond that a good suggestion. In fact i think i will impliment this if the feedback is positive.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

3. Redefine the FVC. Since the new voting badges system, I think that quantity of votes should no longer be considered the FVC's purpose. We are currently seeing a whole load of new incentives to vote more (tournament entry, cool badges, Auto's competition etc). I think the FVC should focus on having high-quality voters who make sure to cover every important battle and then are pushed to vote more, but with quality over quantity being the goal. When quantity is your #1 priority you end up with inexperienced voters with a high VP swaying battles, which is the opposite of the FVC's purpose.

Voting is opinion based. One person will ike different things but i will agree that i (personally) have found a number of FVC votes veryyyyy difficult to agree with. FVC is very high on the priority list and will be a big part of the new moderator appointment i think.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

4. Officially strip Row's titles (and award them to the finalists he cheated). I don't know a huge deal about Row, but I know that he was caught cheating in 1 final and the result was reversed, and there seems to be pretty concrete proof he did likewise in his other wins (i.e. the GC against Bleu). If he were officially no longer recognised, this precedent could be carried forward that cheating causes someone to lose all their titles, which adds a much weightier deterrent than a ban that may or may not last.

Anyone PROVEN to of cheated during a tournament they won WILL be stripped. But i will only accept PROOF. Not the fact that they have cheated before. I need to know that they cheated at THAT time.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

5. Make new accounts start with 0 VP for the first few days/weeks until they become familiar with LB. It isn't their fault that they don't know what they're doing, but it also isn't the fault of battlers who might lose because of it. If some sort of site-greeters program was in place to help guide them and teach them this it would really shorten the length of time this was necessary. (This would also stop people from making new multi accounts just to vote on their battles)

Would be far too hard to manage this. And with the mixture of voting threads, voting badges and & FVC there shouldnt be battles being decided by uneducated voters.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

6. Have more staff. Idk if the current process is going to add 1 or 2 new staff members, but if it's only adding 1, I don't think that's enough. Basically this whole month Rai has clearly been extremely busy irl, which is totally fine and to be expected. This has meant that since 2FUEL stepped down, RULE has been basically the only active staff member, and there's a limit to how much time he can be online every day. If there was 1 more staff member they would hopefully (due to presumed time-zone differences) act like shift workers, each covering part of the day. However, we'd still only have 1 online staff member the majority of the time. In the case of a situation that needs to be addressed urgently, this means that that staff member must be the one to deal with it, even if they have a conflict of interest or its not their area of expertise. I still trust them to handle it, but it's much better if we have multiple staff online most of the time so this isn't an issue.

Given how many issues there has been in the past, X is understandable reluctant to bring too many people into the fold. I have been made Head Moderator to be able to oversee the mods to ensure this doesnt happen. X would like 1 more moderator, i would like two. We have discussed this (and continue to) but at the end of the day we've gone from some seriously dark times to a big resurgence lately and we have to make sure we get this right. Believe me when i say me and X have spoken about new moderators daily since Fuel stepped down.


Some great points here Kiwi. Look forward to hearing the feedback.

Originally Posted by SupremeKnowledge

I'm still stuck on the fact that half of you were ever mods to begin with. And I'm not saying in a fucked up way. I just don't understand how peoples here less than a year and make mod or admin. And then lose it in the same month/year. That's sort of a question/Statement.

so, X removed staff in july. he told us he was doing it for legal reasons, since he intending to take letsbeef to a more serious level.

a lot of people speculate that that isn't true, and instead site me perma banning punk and eth as the real reason staff was removed. keep in mind there is a huge gap of time between those two events lmao.

Originally Posted by SupremeKnowledge

I'm still stuck on the fact that half of you were ever mods to begin with. And I'm not saying in a fucked up way. I just don't understand how peoples here less than a year and make mod or admin. And then lose it in the same month/year. That's sort of a question/Statement.

so, X removed staff in july. he told us he was doing it for legal reasons, since he intending to take letsbeef to a more serious level.

a lot of people speculate that that isn't true, and instead site me perma banning punk and eth as the real reason staff was removed. keep in mind there is a huge gap of time between those two events lmao.

[Kiwi Peewee]

@RULE I feel very sure that moderators comments and votes cannot be seen by regular members before we vote.

[Kiwi Peewee]

@RULE I feel very sure that moderators comments and votes cannot be seen by regular members before we vote.

[RULE]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

@RULE I feel very sure that moderators comments and votes cannot be seen by regular members before we vote.

ah you are correct. Like i said above i personally dont have an issue with my vote being revealed. However im pretty inactive in the battlefield so perhaps not all staff will feel that way.

[RULE]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Peewee

@RULE I feel very sure that moderators comments and votes cannot be seen by regular members before we vote.

ah you are correct. Like i said above i personally dont have an issue with my vote being revealed. However im pretty inactive in the battlefield so perhaps not all staff will feel that way.