White privilege in Rap???

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

Let's say SWAGGA LEE!! was OFFICER LEE, and Officer Lee was patrolling a predominantly black neighborhood that had a high amount of drug traffic. And most of the buyers were white but almost no white people lived in the area. Would Officer Lee give a white person a second look if he came across one? Because yes, Officer Lee, white people are targeted by police under that circumstance.



There were black civilizations that contributed quite a bit to early man. However, I've read extensively into certain periods and places of African history. And watched a few unbiased documentaries on the European colonization of Africa. My understanding is that much of black Africa is and was not conducive for large civilizations and that the European's building large cities is what creates much of the disease and starvation today. So Africans were living in a way that best suited their environment but also gave less room or need for inventions. As well as, other areas became trade hubs and along the Silk Road most ideas and knowledge were past. And naturally, who ever controlled key geographic locations would inherently have more information and goods at their disposal. The Greeks, The Muslim empire, and even the European renaissance owes a great deal of their accomplishments to access and ownership of the Silk Road and other trade routes.



This hypothetical doesn't make the age discrimination hypothetical any less true. Also, you don't know if you're being pulled over cuz you're black. It could be because of your age or another reason. That's just an assumption you made. I've read black males speed more often than many other groups, idk. Just as likely as your assumption.



Again, an assumption that you're pulled over for being black and another assumption white people are never pulled over for being white. I already gave one example why a white person would be pulled over another is if there's a description for a white male commiting a crime. I've been pulled over cuz a white male commited a crime near by many times, were all or any of those instances racist?



Well, if black people are pulled over more than other groups someone would argue, true or not, they commit more crimes. And if not all white people are given white privilege then it doesn't exist.



I think if a white person is pulled over that much it proves there's no privilege in being white and it makes your entire argument invalid honestly. I have 6 cousins including myself that's been to prison, not jail, actual prison. And every white friend from my hood, about 20 of us, have all been to prison. I find white privilege to be laughable. And white privilege means you benefit solely based on your skin color. That's an absolute, so either it's true 100% or it's a false belief.

---------- Post added 04-04-2017 at 12:23 AM ---------- Previous post was 04-03-2017 at 11:46 PM ----------

My closing argument:

White privilege is the concept white people are given preferential treatment by the police and government. By very definition it must be a universal absolute to be a truth. As the concept purely relies on one idea, that "white people are treated differently by the police and government". Which is observably false. As universally, white people are not afforded the same treatment or access to quality representation. Wether it be legally or politically. Thus, this is also demonstrably false by the white people who go to prison, fight in wars and go to college verse those that don't. White privilege is a false concept. Much of what's considered white privilege is actually class privilege and many mistakenly confuse the two. Another mistake many proponents of white privilege make are confusing a cop's or someone's personal racism with white privilege. Yes, a cop may pull you over cuz you're black but that's not white privilege. White privilege does not exist. It doesn't mean blacks aren't unfairly treated, it just means 'you' are wrong.

You gave a good example of a circumstance where it can be argued that someone is targeted by police specifically for being white. That does happen and it is as unfair as any profiling. However, it isn't exactly parallel with the type of harassment some people of color face all too often which don't require an extraordinary circumstance such as being a suspected custie in a drug neighborhood. You might be suspected of being a custie if you show up in a predominantly black community where hardly any other white folks live, but a black person would be suspected of criminality in way more scenarios than that. If you doubt that, then how would you explain blacks getting pulled at a higher frequency than whites?
When you say I don't know for sure that I was pulled over because I am black, you mean I don't have objective proof such as the ability to go in the officer's brain and pinpoint the exactly reasoning behind their pulling me over---something I've already acknowledged in my response to eth and something you would be correct about...if that's what you're saying. However, I would argue that someone can "know" something subjectively and possess truth without the ability to share it. Do you want to debate what constitutes knowledge? Let's say you're right and I don't know for sure that I was pulled over because I'm black. You don't know for sure that I wasn't. That means we're both in a position of ignorance as to the specific reason why I was pulled over. Just as two people can know something but one knows it more (for example, you might know math more than me), I believe there are degrees to ignorance as well, and that out of two people who lack complete knowledge of something, one has a greater lack of It. As the person who was actually pulled over and who went through the experience, I believe you (not being in my shoes) are more likely to lack complete knowledge of why I was pulled over to a greater extent.
My example of a white person getting pulled over a million times was a hypothetical, and I highly doubt any person (white or otherwise) has actually been pulled over a million times. How can that hypothetical scenario which Is not real and hasn't actually happened invalidate my argument and prove there's no white privilege? Look up the term "intersectionality." White privilege doesn't mean white people benefit from being white in all scenarios. Someone can be privileged in certain scenarios and not in others. Pointing out one area where they are not doesn't mean there is no privilege.
I don't believe in absolutes. I believe all truths are relative. That's another debate we can have if you're willing. White privilege can be a truth without being absolute.

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

My closing argument:

White privilege is the concept white people are given preferential treatment by the police and government. By very definition it must be a universal absolute to be a truth. As the concept purely relies on one idea, that "white people are treated differently by the police and government". Which is observably false. As universally, white people are not afforded the same treatment or access to quality representation. Wether it be legally or politically. Thus, this is also demonstrably false by the white people who go to prison, fight in wars and go to college verse those that don't. White privilege is a false concept. Much of what's considered white privilege is actually class privilege and many mistakenly confuse the two. Another mistake many proponents of white privilege make are confusing a cop's or someone's personal racism with white privilege. Yes, a cop may pull you over cuz you're black but that's not white privilege. White privilege does not exist. It doesn't mean blacks aren't unfairly treated, it just means 'you' are wrong.

I can't speak for every proponent of the idea of white privilege, but I certainly do not state it as an absolute truth. Also, "white privilege" goes way beyond police and government. As I've mentioned earlier, just the fact that when we learn "World History" in school, it's disproportionately focused on Europe and its accomplishments....or the fact that you can turn on the TV and see people of your race widely represented. Not everyone has that benefit. No one is saying a racist cop pulling someone over because they are black is white privilege. They are saying the fact that you DON'T have to worry about that (unless you're a suspected custie in a drug neighborhood...lol) is a privilege to you. Yes, a lot of it can be looked at as class-ism, but one would be naive to completely discount race. You seem to acknowledge yourself that blacks are sometimes unfairly treated, and instances of white privilege go beyond class. Just because a person from a racial minority is affluent or upper class doesn't mean they are more likely to see people of their race widely represented if they turned on the TV. It doesn't mean that if they went to a school meant for everyone, they would learn more about their own race's history and accomplishments above all others. Being upper class doesn't change these things. And if you are black and upper-class, it doesn't mean you are less likely to be pulled over either. They just detained Wyclef Jean at LAX because they thought he robbed a gas station (which is interesting because he rapped about it years ago)...and he's rich...but he's also black. How many famous white people do you read about getting detained for being a suspected robber?

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

Let's say SWAGGA LEE!! was OFFICER LEE, and Officer Lee was patrolling a predominantly black neighborhood that had a high amount of drug traffic. And most of the buyers were white but almost no white people lived in the area. Would Officer Lee give a white person a second look if he came across one? Because yes, Officer Lee, white people are targeted by police under that circumstance.



There were black civilizations that contributed quite a bit to early man. However, I've read extensively into certain periods and places of African history. And watched a few unbiased documentaries on the European colonization of Africa. My understanding is that much of black Africa is and was not conducive for large civilizations and that the European's building large cities is what creates much of the disease and starvation today. So Africans were living in a way that best suited their environment but also gave less room or need for inventions. As well as, other areas became trade hubs and along the Silk Road most ideas and knowledge were past. And naturally, who ever controlled key geographic locations would inherently have more information and goods at their disposal. The Greeks, The Muslim empire, and even the European renaissance owes a great deal of their accomplishments to access and ownership of the Silk Road and other trade routes.



This hypothetical doesn't make the age discrimination hypothetical any less true. Also, you don't know if you're being pulled over cuz you're black. It could be because of your age or another reason. That's just an assumption you made. I've read black males speed more often than many other groups, idk. Just as likely as your assumption.



Again, an assumption that you're pulled over for being black and another assumption white people are never pulled over for being white. I already gave one example why a white person would be pulled over another is if there's a description for a white male commiting a crime. I've been pulled over cuz a white male commited a crime near by many times, were all or any of those instances racist?



Well, if black people are pulled over more than other groups someone would argue, true or not, they commit more crimes. And if not all white people are given white privilege then it doesn't exist.



I think if a white person is pulled over that much it proves there's no privilege in being white and it makes your entire argument invalid honestly. I have 6 cousins including myself that's been to prison, not jail, actual prison. And every white friend from my hood, about 20 of us, have all been to prison. I find white privilege to be laughable. And white privilege means you benefit solely based on your skin color. That's an absolute, so either it's true 100% or it's a false belief.

---------- Post added 04-04-2017 at 12:23 AM ---------- Previous post was 04-03-2017 at 11:46 PM ----------

My closing argument:

White privilege is the concept white people are given preferential treatment by the police and government. By very definition it must be a universal absolute to be a truth. As the concept purely relies on one idea, that "white people are treated differently by the police and government". Which is observably false. As universally, white people are not afforded the same treatment or access to quality representation. Wether it be legally or politically. Thus, this is also demonstrably false by the white people who go to prison, fight in wars and go to college verse those that don't. White privilege is a false concept. Much of what's considered white privilege is actually class privilege and many mistakenly confuse the two. Another mistake many proponents of white privilege make are confusing a cop's or someone's personal racism with white privilege. Yes, a cop may pull you over cuz you're black but that's not white privilege. White privilege does not exist. It doesn't mean blacks aren't unfairly treated, it just means 'you' are wrong.

You gave a good example of a circumstance where it can be argued that someone is targeted by police specifically for being white. That does happen and it is as unfair as any profiling. However, it isn't exactly parallel with the type of harassment some people of color face all too often which don't require an extraordinary circumstance such as being a suspected custie in a drug neighborhood. You might be suspected of being a custie if you show up in a predominantly black community where hardly any other white folks live, but a black person would be suspected of criminality in way more scenarios than that. If you doubt that, then how would you explain blacks getting pulled at a higher frequency than whites?
When you say I don't know for sure that I was pulled over because I am black, you mean I don't have objective proof such as the ability to go in the officer's brain and pinpoint the exactly reasoning behind their pulling me over---something I've already acknowledged in my response to eth and something you would be correct about...if that's what you're saying. However, I would argue that someone can "know" something subjectively and possess truth without the ability to share it. Do you want to debate what constitutes knowledge? Let's say you're right and I don't know for sure that I was pulled over because I'm black. You don't know for sure that I wasn't. That means we're both in a position of ignorance as to the specific reason why I was pulled over. Just as two people can know something but one knows it more (for example, you might know math more than me), I believe there are degrees to ignorance as well, and that out of two people who lack complete knowledge of something, one has a greater lack of It. As the person who was actually pulled over and who went through the experience, I believe you (not being in my shoes) are more likely to lack complete knowledge of why I was pulled over to a greater extent.
My example of a white person getting pulled over a million times was a hypothetical, and I highly doubt any person (white or otherwise) has actually been pulled over a million times. How can that hypothetical scenario which Is not real and hasn't actually happened invalidate my argument and prove there's no white privilege? Look up the term "intersectionality." White privilege doesn't mean white people benefit from being white in all scenarios. Someone can be privileged in certain scenarios and not in others. Pointing out one area where they are not doesn't mean there is no privilege.
I don't believe in absolutes. I believe all truths are relative. That's another debate we can have if you're willing. White privilege can be a truth without being absolute.

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Lyve SCIENCE

My closing argument:

White privilege is the concept white people are given preferential treatment by the police and government. By very definition it must be a universal absolute to be a truth. As the concept purely relies on one idea, that "white people are treated differently by the police and government". Which is observably false. As universally, white people are not afforded the same treatment or access to quality representation. Wether it be legally or politically. Thus, this is also demonstrably false by the white people who go to prison, fight in wars and go to college verse those that don't. White privilege is a false concept. Much of what's considered white privilege is actually class privilege and many mistakenly confuse the two. Another mistake many proponents of white privilege make are confusing a cop's or someone's personal racism with white privilege. Yes, a cop may pull you over cuz you're black but that's not white privilege. White privilege does not exist. It doesn't mean blacks aren't unfairly treated, it just means 'you' are wrong.

I can't speak for every proponent of the idea of white privilege, but I certainly do not state it as an absolute truth. Also, "white privilege" goes way beyond police and government. As I've mentioned earlier, just the fact that when we learn "World History" in school, it's disproportionately focused on Europe and its accomplishments....or the fact that you can turn on the TV and see people of your race widely represented. Not everyone has that benefit. No one is saying a racist cop pulling someone over because they are black is white privilege. They are saying the fact that you DON'T have to worry about that (unless you're a suspected custie in a drug neighborhood...lol) is a privilege to you. Yes, a lot of it can be looked at as class-ism, but one would be naive to completely discount race. You seem to acknowledge yourself that blacks are sometimes unfairly treated, and instances of white privilege go beyond class. Just because a person from a racial minority is affluent or upper class doesn't mean they are more likely to see people of their race widely represented if they turned on the TV. It doesn't mean that if they went to a school meant for everyone, they would learn more about their own race's history and accomplishments above all others. Being upper class doesn't change these things. And if you are black and upper-class, it doesn't mean you are less likely to be pulled over either. They just detained Wyclef Jean at LAX because they thought he robbed a gas station (which is interesting because he rapped about it years ago)...and he's rich...but he's also black. How many famous white people do you read about getting detained for being a suspected robber?