Fake Personals Discussion.

I've had to ban Subreal for swaying on an open battle after I already asked him not too. He's getting heated over what he calls fake personals. I would agree that the statements his opponent made are inaccurate and I know a lot of you despise fake personals however currently they are not against the rules.

I'm a mod I have to enforce the rules as they currently stand. Swaying the result of a battle is against the rules. Fake personals aren't. I want a democratic resolution though and I know some of you are pissed at this.

So, how about together we come to a decision on how to handle fake personals. Should they result in an auto-loss? How would you like us mods to handle them when they happen.

PLEASE do not post about the battle in question or I'll be forced to delete your comment. Keep the discussion to fake personals in general.

I've had to ban Subreal for swaying on an open battle after I already asked him not too. He's getting heated over what he calls fake personals. I would agree that the statements his opponent made are inaccurate and I know a lot of you despise fake personals however currently they are not against the rules.

I'm a mod I have to enforce the rules as they currently stand. Swaying the result of a battle is against the rules. Fake personals aren't. I want a democratic resolution though and I know some of you are pissed at this.

So, how about together we come to a decision on how to handle fake personals. Should they result in an auto-loss? How would you like us mods to handle them when they happen.

PLEASE do not post about the battle in question or I'll be forced to delete your comment. Keep the discussion to fake personals in general.

I don't know about an auto loss. But I do kind of think you should be able to refute objectively false claims.

I don't know about an auto loss. But I do kind of think you should be able to refute objectively false claims.

[Bape]

If it's fake, I don't see what the problem is. People are gonna make stuff up in battles just to make their punches more relevant.

[Bape]

If it's fake, I don't see what the problem is. People are gonna make stuff up in battles just to make their punches more relevant.

[KG The Prince]

Originally Posted by Bape

If it's fake, I don't see what the problem is. People are gonna make stuff up in battles just to make their punches more relevant.

Agree with this.

[KG The Prince]

Originally Posted by Bape

If it's fake, I don't see what the problem is. People are gonna make stuff up in battles just to make their punches more relevant.

Agree with this.

You had to ban him, or you unjustifiably banned him?

You had to ban him, or you unjustifiably banned him?

[Miles Uzi]

A personal is literally something tailored to that person's environment. It doesn't have to be legit. That's like saying every bar you spit has to be something you would actually do. Most of you wouldn't even know how to use a butterfly blade, but yet you would talk about it openly like it's second nature. Come on now. Use your heads. The entirety of battle rap is consistent with false claims of homosexuality, pedophilia, etc., and we're supposed to think all these claims are legit? Then every battle rapper is a closet homosexual, racist biggot who chases children in their spare time....Using information that correlates to a person, like their race, is personal, even if they aren't white. So if I'm albino and you keep calling me kettle black, does that mean I should try to refute the battle and have the opposition disqualified? That's petty...This sounds like a scapegoat tbh.

[Miles Uzi]

A personal is literally something tailored to that person's environment. It doesn't have to be legit. That's like saying every bar you spit has to be something you would actually do. Most of you wouldn't even know how to use a butterfly blade, but yet you would talk about it openly like it's second nature. Come on now. Use your heads. The entirety of battle rap is consistent with false claims of homosexuality, pedophilia, etc., and we're supposed to think all these claims are legit? Then every battle rapper is a closet homosexual, racist biggot who chases children in their spare time....Using information that correlates to a person, like their race, is personal, even if they aren't white. So if I'm albino and you keep calling me kettle black, does that mean I should try to refute the battle and have the opposition disqualified? That's petty...This sounds like a scapegoat tbh.

[HIGHpothasis]

Originally Posted by Miles Uzi

A personal is literally something tailored to that person's environment. It doesn't have to be legit. That's like saying every bar you spit has to be something you would actually do. Most of you wouldn't even know how to use a butterfly blade, but yet you would talk about it openly like it's second nature. Come on now. Use your heads. The entirety of battle rap is consistent with false claims of homosexuality, pedophilia, etc., and we're supposed to think all these claims are legit? Then every battle rapper is a closet homosexual, racist biggot who chases children in their spare time....Using information that correlates to a person, like their race, is personal, even if they aren't white. So if I'm albino and you keep calling me kettle black, does that mean I should try to refute the battle and have the opposition disqualified? That's petty...This sounds like a scapegoat tbh.

BEST CLAP BACK EVER!!! THIS IS ALL FACTS!!!

[HIGHpothasis]

Originally Posted by Miles Uzi

A personal is literally something tailored to that person's environment. It doesn't have to be legit. That's like saying every bar you spit has to be something you would actually do. Most of you wouldn't even know how to use a butterfly blade, but yet you would talk about it openly like it's second nature. Come on now. Use your heads. The entirety of battle rap is consistent with false claims of homosexuality, pedophilia, etc., and we're supposed to think all these claims are legit? Then every battle rapper is a closet homosexual, racist biggot who chases children in their spare time....Using information that correlates to a person, like their race, is personal, even if they aren't white. So if I'm albino and you keep calling me kettle black, does that mean I should try to refute the battle and have the opposition disqualified? That's petty...This sounds like a scapegoat tbh.

BEST CLAP BACK EVER!!! THIS IS ALL FACTS!!!

[NOBLE]

No, fake personals shouldn't result in an auto loss because that would mean we're essentially giving people auto-losses for lying when almost everything that is said in almost every verse is a lie. 99% of the people who spit gun bars and talk about how their ruger will put you in the air have never touched a gun and will never see you in real life to even be able to do that. Even the people who don't spit gun bars but joke about how you used to suck your daddy's cock don't really know shit about your life. It's all lies so we might as well give everyone an auto loss if that's the policy.

[NOBLE]

No, fake personals shouldn't result in an auto loss because that would mean we're essentially giving people auto-losses for lying when almost everything that is said in almost every verse is a lie. 99% of the people who spit gun bars and talk about how their ruger will put you in the air have never touched a gun and will never see you in real life to even be able to do that. Even the people who don't spit gun bars but joke about how you used to suck your daddy's cock don't really know shit about your life. It's all lies so we might as well give everyone an auto loss if that's the policy.

[Subreal]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

No, fake personals shouldn't result in an auto loss because that would mean we're essentially giving people auto-losses for lying when almost everything that is said in almost every verse is a lie. 99% of the people who spit gun bars and talk about how their ruger will put you in the air have never touched a gun and will never see you in real life to even be able to do that. Even the people who don't spit gun bars but joke about how you used to suck your daddy's cock don't really know shit about your life. It's a
l lies so we might as well give everyone an auto loss if that's the policy.

So.. I can lie and say that you were in a crew and claim your crew lost Illmania and you aren't allowed to expo and simply say that it's not true or you get banned?

[Subreal]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

No, fake personals shouldn't result in an auto loss because that would mean we're essentially giving people auto-losses for lying when almost everything that is said in almost every verse is a lie. 99% of the people who spit gun bars and talk about how their ruger will put you in the air have never touched a gun and will never see you in real life to even be able to do that. Even the people who don't spit gun bars but joke about how you used to suck your daddy's cock don't really know shit about your life. It's a
l lies so we might as well give everyone an auto loss if that's the policy.

So.. I can lie and say that you were in a crew and claim your crew lost Illmania and you aren't allowed to expo and simply say that it's not true or you get banned?

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Subreal

So.. I can lie and say that you were in a crew and claim your crew lost Illmania and you aren't allowed to expo and simply say that it's not true or you get banned?

I was answering the question about whether fake personals should result in an auto-loss only. The question didn't include what to do if a battler disputes the fake personals in the comments.
Like I told Nicholas in the staff forum, I personally wouldn't have banned you, but we have two facts that need to be respected but seem to be in conflict which we need to figure out how to better resolve from now on.

1) Making comments about an open battle that may influence people who haven't voted IS swaying and shouldn't be allowed.
2) A battler (or anyone) should have a right to dispute lies and inaccuracies that may have been said about them and defend themselves against such accusations.

If the same comments had been posted by anyone else, it wouldn't have been considered swaying because only people who have already voted would be able to see them. But because you are actually one of the battlers on the page, people CAN see your comments before voting, and your comments can "sway."

My conclusion: The notion itself that a comment made by one person can sway another person, betrays a lack of faith in the person who is supposedly swayed. While it may be true that people can be and are sometimes swayed, it is probably wrong to take the approach that people generally can't see comments made by self-interested parties and recognize that for what it is and still come to independent assessments.
I think we should look into relaxing some aspects of our policy against swaying so as to allow for certain things like respecting a battler's right to defend themselves against fake personals. If it's okay for people to lie against you (which it is), it should definitely be okay for you to defend yourself somehow.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Subreal

So.. I can lie and say that you were in a crew and claim your crew lost Illmania and you aren't allowed to expo and simply say that it's not true or you get banned?

I was answering the question about whether fake personals should result in an auto-loss only. The question didn't include what to do if a battler disputes the fake personals in the comments.
Like I told Nicholas in the staff forum, I personally wouldn't have banned you, but we have two facts that need to be respected but seem to be in conflict which we need to figure out how to better resolve from now on.

1) Making comments about an open battle that may influence people who haven't voted IS swaying and shouldn't be allowed.
2) A battler (or anyone) should have a right to dispute lies and inaccuracies that may have been said about them and defend themselves against such accusations.

If the same comments had been posted by anyone else, it wouldn't have been considered swaying because only people who have already voted would be able to see them. But because you are actually one of the battlers on the page, people CAN see your comments before voting, and your comments can "sway."

My conclusion: The notion itself that a comment made by one person can sway another person, betrays a lack of faith in the person who is supposedly swayed. While it may be true that people can be and are sometimes swayed, it is probably wrong to take the approach that people generally can't see comments made by self-interested parties and recognize that for what it is and still come to independent assessments.
I think we should look into relaxing some aspects of our policy against swaying so as to allow for certain things like respecting a battler's right to defend themselves against fake personals. If it's okay for people to lie against you (which it is), it should definitely be okay for you to defend yourself somehow.