Should non-staff members be able to have 3+ VP?

I don't think mods have really been on the raising / lowering VP duty lately. A lot of new accounts are running around with 2 VP dropping shitty votes and people are losing battles they won because of it.

I don't think mods have really been on the raising / lowering VP duty lately. A lot of new accounts are running around with 2 VP dropping shitty votes and people are losing battles they won because of it.

Battling / rapping prowess goes hand in hand with your understanding / knowledge of battling / rapping. The best writers understand writing the most from my experiences whether it be discussion or their voting understandably so. Because they've actually been behind the scenes of putting together all of the layers that can be seen in a good/great verse. There is only so much you can comprehend by not actually experiencing and being able to perform certain actions. Someone who isn't on my level pen wise can't really be on the same plane as me when breaking down the intricacies of a verse. It actually kinda turns into a lesson from me rather than a convo. I also believe not being able to perform certain actions generally doesn't let you understand the effort / skill those things take and may lead some to be dismissive of those aspects.

It's one thing to explain a vote well, it's another thing to be accurate and have insight / knowledge behind your judgement. I could express my opinion very eloquently but that doesn't mean it's still not way off for whatever reason that may be.

Battling / rapping prowess goes hand in hand with your understanding / knowledge of battling / rapping. The best writers understand writing the most from my experiences whether it be discussion or their voting understandably so. Because they've actually been behind the scenes of putting together all of the layers that can be seen in a good/great verse. There is only so much you can comprehend by not actually experiencing and being able to perform certain actions. Someone who isn't on my level pen wise can't really be on the same plane as me when breaking down the intricacies of a verse. It actually kinda turns into a lesson from me rather than a convo. I also believe not being able to perform certain actions generally doesn't let you understand the effort / skill those things take and may lead some to be dismissive of those aspects.

It's one thing to explain a vote well, it's another thing to be accurate and have insight / knowledge behind your judgement. I could express my opinion very eloquently but that doesn't mean it's still not way off for whatever reason that may be.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Bleu

Battling / rapping prowess goes hand in hand with your understanding / knowledge of battling / rapping. The best writers understand writing the most from my experiences whether it be discussion or their voting understandably so. Because they've actually been behind the scenes of putting together all of the layers that can be seen in a good/great verse. There is only so much you can comprehend by not actually experiencing and being able to perform certain actions. Someone who isn't on my level pen wise can't really be on the same plane as me when breaking down the intricacies of a verse. It actually kinda turns into a lesson from me rather than a convo. I also believe not being able to perform certain actions generally doesn't let you understand the effort / skill those things take and may lead some to be dismissive of those aspects.

Someone can have an understanding/knowledge of battling without actually being a dope battler. It's just like Phil Jackson has probably never been able to beat any of the players he has coached in basketball, but he has enough understanding to be their coach. Some of the referees who make the calls in the NBA are downright out of shape, but they understand the rules of the game better than anyone else, even the players. I've seen people who are considered the best battlers drop votes I would consider shitty, or otherwise disagree with each other as to the winner on the same battle. Even being a "dope battler" itself is not as rigid as some people try to make it out to be. Very few people that are considered dope battlers here can go to another battling site and be considered dope to the same extent, because they have different styles and different things that they consider "dope." Even within LetsBeef, different eras see things differently. Someone that's considered dope today might not have been considered dope 5 years ago, or vice versa. It's not that rigid.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Bleu

Battling / rapping prowess goes hand in hand with your understanding / knowledge of battling / rapping. The best writers understand writing the most from my experiences whether it be discussion or their voting understandably so. Because they've actually been behind the scenes of putting together all of the layers that can be seen in a good/great verse. There is only so much you can comprehend by not actually experiencing and being able to perform certain actions. Someone who isn't on my level pen wise can't really be on the same plane as me when breaking down the intricacies of a verse. It actually kinda turns into a lesson from me rather than a convo. I also believe not being able to perform certain actions generally doesn't let you understand the effort / skill those things take and may lead some to be dismissive of those aspects.

Someone can have an understanding/knowledge of battling without actually being a dope battler. It's just like Phil Jackson has probably never been able to beat any of the players he has coached in basketball, but he has enough understanding to be their coach. Some of the referees who make the calls in the NBA are downright out of shape, but they understand the rules of the game better than anyone else, even the players. I've seen people who are considered the best battlers drop votes I would consider shitty, or otherwise disagree with each other as to the winner on the same battle. Even being a "dope battler" itself is not as rigid as some people try to make it out to be. Very few people that are considered dope battlers here can go to another battling site and be considered dope to the same extent, because they have different styles and different things that they consider "dope." Even within LetsBeef, different eras see things differently. Someone that's considered dope today might not have been considered dope 5 years ago, or vice versa. It's not that rigid.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by Bleu

Battling / rapping prowess goes hand in hand with your understanding / knowledge of battling / rapping. The best writers understand writing the most from my experiences whether it be discussion or their voting understandably so. Because they've actually been behind the scenes of putting together all of the layers that can be seen in a good/great verse. There is only so much you can comprehend by not actually experiencing and being able to perform certain actions. Someone who isn't on my level pen wise can't really be on the same plane as me when breaking down the intricacies of a verse. It actually kinda turns into a lesson from me rather than a convo. I also believe not being able to perform certain actions generally doesn't let you understand the effort / skill those things take and may lead some to be dismissive of those aspects.

It's one thing to explain a vote well, it's another thing to be accurate and have insight / knowledge behind your judgement. I could express my opinion very eloquently but that doesn't mean it's still not way off for whatever reason that may be.

gotta say I agree with bleu on this one 100%, there are obviously exceptions to every rule however it isn't out of the realm of common sense to assert one with a polished grasp on the medium can develop more of a veteran outlook & be vastly more equipped to break material down. Especially in comparison to someone who only grasps the concepts theyre breaking down at an ameteur level, which is less of a percentage of people these days but still is present. So its not that you /have/ to be a polished writer in order to break something down but if those with higher vp were really representative of the members most equipped to deserve that high VP, I'm willing to bet deleting my account that the list would be almost parallel to the top emcees here with like two exceptions

On the topic of who "deserves" higher vp it should most definitely not be mods simply because "moderator" worthy activity doesnt have to even include consistent or descriptive voting these days. So why give them privileges for voting? I cant tell you how many times I've gotten one sentence or 4 word votes from mods. If a mods single vote can sway the outcome of my battle completely it better be longer than a single fucking sentence lol.

Higher VP should be given to a new group in the same vain as the FVC, a group which mods should also be able to join because there ARE mods who deserve the vp they currently have. This group should vet people via their voting history before joining as well as consistently look at the votes of members in the group to see if they are withholding the high standard. im willing to do all that myself if yall actually wanna run with something like that, because so far the other solutions are pretty messy

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by Bleu

Battling / rapping prowess goes hand in hand with your understanding / knowledge of battling / rapping. The best writers understand writing the most from my experiences whether it be discussion or their voting understandably so. Because they've actually been behind the scenes of putting together all of the layers that can be seen in a good/great verse. There is only so much you can comprehend by not actually experiencing and being able to perform certain actions. Someone who isn't on my level pen wise can't really be on the same plane as me when breaking down the intricacies of a verse. It actually kinda turns into a lesson from me rather than a convo. I also believe not being able to perform certain actions generally doesn't let you understand the effort / skill those things take and may lead some to be dismissive of those aspects.

It's one thing to explain a vote well, it's another thing to be accurate and have insight / knowledge behind your judgement. I could express my opinion very eloquently but that doesn't mean it's still not way off for whatever reason that may be.

gotta say I agree with bleu on this one 100%, there are obviously exceptions to every rule however it isn't out of the realm of common sense to assert one with a polished grasp on the medium can develop more of a veteran outlook & be vastly more equipped to break material down. Especially in comparison to someone who only grasps the concepts theyre breaking down at an ameteur level, which is less of a percentage of people these days but still is present. So its not that you /have/ to be a polished writer in order to break something down but if those with higher vp were really representative of the members most equipped to deserve that high VP, I'm willing to bet deleting my account that the list would be almost parallel to the top emcees here with like two exceptions

On the topic of who "deserves" higher vp it should most definitely not be mods simply because "moderator" worthy activity doesnt have to even include consistent or descriptive voting these days. So why give them privileges for voting? I cant tell you how many times I've gotten one sentence or 4 word votes from mods. If a mods single vote can sway the outcome of my battle completely it better be longer than a single fucking sentence lol.

Higher VP should be given to a new group in the same vain as the FVC, a group which mods should also be able to join because there ARE mods who deserve the vp they currently have. This group should vet people via their voting history before joining as well as consistently look at the votes of members in the group to see if they are withholding the high standard. im willing to do all that myself if yall actually wanna run with something like that, because so far the other solutions are pretty messy

You can't compare the NBA to battle rapping, it's not the same. Creativity, especially in this form, is much different than basketball. Sure, you can be knowledgeable, but there's no one on LB who can't rap for shit that is more knowledgeable than those who actually have all the skills rap entails. Obviously there are good writers who still aren't good at judging battles. My point is having the mindset of a dope writer sets you up to be able to vote well since you have such an in depth wealth of knowledge / experience, but that'll obviously vary on a case by case basis. The real underlying problem is too many look at things subjectively without perspective or insight as you made obvious when you talked about peoples varying opinions on things.

You can't compare the NBA to battle rapping, it's not the same. Creativity, especially in this form, is much different than basketball. Sure, you can be knowledgeable, but there's no one on LB who can't rap for shit that is more knowledgeable than those who actually have all the skills rap entails. Obviously there are good writers who still aren't good at judging battles. My point is having the mindset of a dope writer sets you up to be able to vote well since you have such an in depth wealth of knowledge / experience, but that'll obviously vary on a case by case basis. The real underlying problem is too many look at things subjectively without perspective or insight as you made obvious when you talked about peoples varying opinions on things.

[Bape]

Give DOG PAC voting power

[Bape]

Give DOG PAC voting power

I'm starting to think this concept is kinda too hardcore. Majority of people don't want to write long ass breakdowns and don't really care about looking at shit fairly with an even perspective. If shit were to be ran ideally there would have to be so much more organization and community in place and with the way things are now.. I doubt that'll come to fruition any time soon.

I'm starting to think this concept is kinda too hardcore. Majority of people don't want to write long ass breakdowns and don't really care about looking at shit fairly with an even perspective. If shit were to be ran ideally there would have to be so much more organization and community in place and with the way things are now.. I doubt that'll come to fruition any time soon.

[NOBLE]

It's like I'm saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and you're saying, "no, beauty is in the eye of he who really understands art." You're right that the NBA isn't exactly like battle rap. The NBA is a lot more rigid in the sense that, for example, LeBron James being a great basketball player is less dependent on our taste than Dizaster being a great battle rapper is. Whether you like his style of play or not, LeBron scores and dominates and you can't argue with stats. With battle rap, on the other hand, it's based almost entirely on opinion and taste. If multi-syllables and aggression are your thing, then Dizaster is probably one of the dopest ever, but if you're more into other aspects, then you might rate someone else higher than Diz. People don't win battles just because they are good. They win battles off the opinion of others. If they are subjected to a different crowd or a different era, they might lose. Someone can win in KOTD and lose horribly on SMACK against the same opponent with the same verses. The beholders, collectively, are who determine who's a dope battler or not, not the battler's actual skills set. I'd agree that being a dope writer and having that mindset often sets you up to have a more organized way of assessing the verses of other, but I disagree that it means you have better taste.

[NOBLE]

It's like I'm saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and you're saying, "no, beauty is in the eye of he who really understands art." You're right that the NBA isn't exactly like battle rap. The NBA is a lot more rigid in the sense that, for example, LeBron James being a great basketball player is less dependent on our taste than Dizaster being a great battle rapper is. Whether you like his style of play or not, LeBron scores and dominates and you can't argue with stats. With battle rap, on the other hand, it's based almost entirely on opinion and taste. If multi-syllables and aggression are your thing, then Dizaster is probably one of the dopest ever, but if you're more into other aspects, then you might rate someone else higher than Diz. People don't win battles just because they are good. They win battles off the opinion of others. If they are subjected to a different crowd or a different era, they might lose. Someone can win in KOTD and lose horribly on SMACK against the same opponent with the same verses. The beholders, collectively, are who determine who's a dope battler or not, not the battler's actual skills set. I'd agree that being a dope writer and having that mindset often sets you up to have a more organized way of assessing the verses of other, but I disagree that it means you have better taste.

[MaCc Da G0D]

...NEWSFLASH.

.......if You Haven't Dropped at Least 5 Votes On Battles This Week SHUT THE MOTHERFUCK UP AND GET THE HELL OFF OF THIS THREAD!

Its Like The Dickheads with The Most 'Glorified' Responses Are the Ones Who Only Vote On Tourney Battles. #SuccADiccAndDie

*Drops The Mic Like Verizon Wireless*

[MaCc Da G0D]

...NEWSFLASH.

.......if You Haven't Dropped at Least 5 Votes On Battles This Week SHUT THE MOTHERFUCK UP AND GET THE HELL OFF OF THIS THREAD!

Its Like The Dickheads with The Most 'Glorified' Responses Are the Ones Who Only Vote On Tourney Battles. #SuccADiccAndDie

*Drops The Mic Like Verizon Wireless*

[Subreal]

Originally Posted by MaCcZmum SeCurity

...NEWSFLASH.

.......if You Haven't Dropped at Least 5 Votes On Battles This Week SHUT THE MOTHERFUCK UP AND GET THE HELL OFF OF THIS THREAD!

Its Like The Dickheads with The Most 'Glorified' Responses Are the Ones Who Only Vote On Tourney Battles. #SuccADiccAndDie

*Drops The Mic Like Verizon Wireless*

if you've been banned more than 5 times SHUT THE MOTHERFUCK UP AND GET THE HELL OFF OF THIS THREAD!

[Subreal]

Originally Posted by MaCcZmum SeCurity

...NEWSFLASH.

.......if You Haven't Dropped at Least 5 Votes On Battles This Week SHUT THE MOTHERFUCK UP AND GET THE HELL OFF OF THIS THREAD!

Its Like The Dickheads with The Most 'Glorified' Responses Are the Ones Who Only Vote On Tourney Battles. #SuccADiccAndDie

*Drops The Mic Like Verizon Wireless*

if you've been banned more than 5 times SHUT THE MOTHERFUCK UP AND GET THE HELL OFF OF THIS THREAD!