Changes I'd like to see

[EtH]

Originally Posted by Guts

now i question every bit of "history" i learned from you. lmfao

seul called row out for cheating before i was ever mod. huge thread. punk defended row, everybody clowned on row. pretty sure you were there.

when i was mod, we all had many talks about row and what to do. i did spend a lot of time trying to catch him slipping, and finally did via IM. i sent the screen to everyone in the staff forums, noble admitted it looked very damning, then row deleted his accounts.

Seul suggested that Silver Dollar Sam was Row, claiming that all 5 votes he'd made were for Row. This wasn't true, as he'd also voted against me in a battle, for Rai in a battle, and this is just others we found.

It was also clear that they werent the same person, so at most we're talking "buddy voting".

This is no difference, if anything much much much, less than Rican and Stalin. However as we are the evidence isn't conclusive for Rican to get anything yet Row is being treated like hr was ousted in the face of insurmountable evidence. This is unequivocally not true.

[EtH]

Originally Posted by Guts

now i question every bit of "history" i learned from you. lmfao

seul called row out for cheating before i was ever mod. huge thread. punk defended row, everybody clowned on row. pretty sure you were there.

when i was mod, we all had many talks about row and what to do. i did spend a lot of time trying to catch him slipping, and finally did via IM. i sent the screen to everyone in the staff forums, noble admitted it looked very damning, then row deleted his accounts.

Seul suggested that Silver Dollar Sam was Row, claiming that all 5 votes he'd made were for Row. This wasn't true, as he'd also voted against me in a battle, for Rai in a battle, and this is just others we found.

It was also clear that they werent the same person, so at most we're talking "buddy voting".

This is no difference, if anything much much much, less than Rican and Stalin. However as we are the evidence isn't conclusive for Rican to get anything yet Row is being treated like hr was ousted in the face of insurmountable evidence. This is unequivocally not true.

Originally Posted by EtH

Seul suggested that Silver Dollar Sam was Row, claiming that all 5 votes he'd made were for Row. This wasn't true, as he'd also voted against me in a battle, for Rai in a battle, and this is just others we found.

It was also clear that they werent the same person, so at most we're talking "buddy voting".

This is no difference, if anything much much much, less than Rican and Stalin. However as we are the evidence isn't conclusive for Rican to get anything yet Row is being treated like hr was ousted in the face of insurmountable evidence. This is unequivocally not true.

you never saw the screen of him basically telling me "i could admit it but i wont"

also, like i said, most evidence is in the staff forums. he deleted all accounts and left, so there's really not much to do about that.

Originally Posted by EtH

Seul suggested that Silver Dollar Sam was Row, claiming that all 5 votes he'd made were for Row. This wasn't true, as he'd also voted against me in a battle, for Rai in a battle, and this is just others we found.

It was also clear that they werent the same person, so at most we're talking "buddy voting".

This is no difference, if anything much much much, less than Rican and Stalin. However as we are the evidence isn't conclusive for Rican to get anything yet Row is being treated like hr was ousted in the face of insurmountable evidence. This is unequivocally not true.

you never saw the screen of him basically telling me "i could admit it but i wont"

also, like i said, most evidence is in the staff forums. he deleted all accounts and left, so there's really not much to do about that.

[EtH]

Originally Posted by Guts

you never saw the screen of him basically telling me "i could admit it but i wont"

also, like i said, most evidence is in the staff forums. he deleted all accounts and left, so there's really not much to do about that.

So you guys deliberately withheld evidence from the rest of the site and we're supposed to be like "Oh well if you say so".

As I said, I know exactly what it was like being on the other side of that exact staff team. Even the good staff like Sabu, Lock and Seul, we still ended up being kicked off LB "forever". So excuse my doubts over hidden, never before seen conclusive evidence about Row that was deliberately not posted alongside the other evidence and accusation thread.

[EtH]

Originally Posted by Guts

you never saw the screen of him basically telling me "i could admit it but i wont"

also, like i said, most evidence is in the staff forums. he deleted all accounts and left, so there's really not much to do about that.

So you guys deliberately withheld evidence from the rest of the site and we're supposed to be like "Oh well if you say so".

As I said, I know exactly what it was like being on the other side of that exact staff team. Even the good staff like Sabu, Lock and Seul, we still ended up being kicked off LB "forever". So excuse my doubts over hidden, never before seen conclusive evidence about Row that was deliberately not posted alongside the other evidence and accusation thread.

Originally Posted by EtH

So you guys deliberately withheld evidence from the rest of the site and we're supposed to be like "Oh well if you say so".

As I said, I know exactly what it was like being on the other side of that exact staff team. Even the good staff like Sabu, Lock and Seul, we still ended up being kicked off LB "forever". So excuse my doubts over hidden, never before seen conclusive evidence about Row that was deliberately not posted alongside the other evidence and accusation thread.

i mean, to my understanding, the reason we never posted anything is because it was never officially rolled out that he was banned. i mean i've said that a few times now, but he deletes his accounts, so there was need to mention it further honestly.

i don't think anybody was hiding anything. i think everyone (apart from me) was trying to make sure there was 100% concrete evidence before making another thread about it.

(apart from me) because i really think being too hesitant with obvious cheaters only allows more cheating to follow. you and punk are completely separate from row though.

Originally Posted by EtH

So you guys deliberately withheld evidence from the rest of the site and we're supposed to be like "Oh well if you say so".

As I said, I know exactly what it was like being on the other side of that exact staff team. Even the good staff like Sabu, Lock and Seul, we still ended up being kicked off LB "forever". So excuse my doubts over hidden, never before seen conclusive evidence about Row that was deliberately not posted alongside the other evidence and accusation thread.

i mean, to my understanding, the reason we never posted anything is because it was never officially rolled out that he was banned. i mean i've said that a few times now, but he deletes his accounts, so there was need to mention it further honestly.

i don't think anybody was hiding anything. i think everyone (apart from me) was trying to make sure there was 100% concrete evidence before making another thread about it.

(apart from me) because i really think being too hesitant with obvious cheaters only allows more cheating to follow. you and punk are completely separate from row though.

[EtH]

Originally Posted by Guts

i mean, to my understanding, the reason we never posted anything is because it was never officially rolled out that he was banned. i mean i've said that a few times now, but he deletes his accounts, so there was need to mention it further honestly.

i don't think anybody was hiding anything. i think everyone (apart from me) was trying to make sure there was 100% concrete evidence before making another thread about it.

(apart from me) because i really think being too hesitant with obvious cheaters only allows more cheating to follow. you and punk are completely separate from row though.

But Seul had made an entire thread laying out multiple pieces of (inconclusive) evidence. You're making the accusations and getting opinions but hold back on the smoking gun?

If you're giving Row shit for the buying votes stuff, cool, but most of us were around when he came back, he admined the site and won titles. You cant be angry at that in hindsight. If youre giving him shit, it has to be about the Silver Dollar Sam stuff and from a basic member perspective as none of us were ever given the evidence we have nothing to go at him on. Like Kiwi is suggesting every title gets stripped without a scrap of evidence.

[EtH]

Originally Posted by Guts

i mean, to my understanding, the reason we never posted anything is because it was never officially rolled out that he was banned. i mean i've said that a few times now, but he deletes his accounts, so there was need to mention it further honestly.

i don't think anybody was hiding anything. i think everyone (apart from me) was trying to make sure there was 100% concrete evidence before making another thread about it.

(apart from me) because i really think being too hesitant with obvious cheaters only allows more cheating to follow. you and punk are completely separate from row though.

But Seul had made an entire thread laying out multiple pieces of (inconclusive) evidence. You're making the accusations and getting opinions but hold back on the smoking gun?

If you're giving Row shit for the buying votes stuff, cool, but most of us were around when he came back, he admined the site and won titles. You cant be angry at that in hindsight. If youre giving him shit, it has to be about the Silver Dollar Sam stuff and from a basic member perspective as none of us were ever given the evidence we have nothing to go at him on. Like Kiwi is suggesting every title gets stripped without a scrap of evidence.

[Óðinn]

Originally Posted by EtH

Personally I remember thinking accusations to Row which led to his current disappearance were fairly questionable and were almost entirely spearheaded by Gutz, someone who later permabanned members for annoying him.

Whatever you guys want to say about Row, you didn't really say it when he was here. After the topical, he was fully accepted back, was an administrator, won championships.

It has been incorrectly framed that "paying for votes" has a single thing to do with his current absence, and it does not.

What did he do after the purchasing of votes in his and mine topical final? (As if that wasn’t seriously shady enough, I’m to believe ya’ll made him a fucking Admin? WHAT. THE. ACTUAL fuck?)

[Óðinn]

Originally Posted by EtH

Personally I remember thinking accusations to Row which led to his current disappearance were fairly questionable and were almost entirely spearheaded by Gutz, someone who later permabanned members for annoying him.

Whatever you guys want to say about Row, you didn't really say it when he was here. After the topical, he was fully accepted back, was an administrator, won championships.

It has been incorrectly framed that "paying for votes" has a single thing to do with his current absence, and it does not.

What did he do after the purchasing of votes in his and mine topical final? (As if that wasn’t seriously shady enough, I’m to believe ya’ll made him a fucking Admin? WHAT. THE. ACTUAL fuck?)

[EtH]

Originally Posted by 2FUEL

What did he do after the purchasing of votes in his and mine topical final? (As if that wasn’t seriously shady enough, I’m to believe ya’ll made him a fucking Admin? WHAT. THE. ACTUAL fuck?)

I wasn't around for any of it, and you know how I'd have responded haha. Someone the other day said something about Row meeting Pugz at a live event and convincing him but I dunno anything about it.

Fact is though if people let the dude come back, win titles, gave him props, they cant suddenly be annoyed by 5 year old shit when he leaves under unrelated circumstances.

[EtH]

Originally Posted by 2FUEL

What did he do after the purchasing of votes in his and mine topical final? (As if that wasn’t seriously shady enough, I’m to believe ya’ll made him a fucking Admin? WHAT. THE. ACTUAL fuck?)

I wasn't around for any of it, and you know how I'd have responded haha. Someone the other day said something about Row meeting Pugz at a live event and convincing him but I dunno anything about it.

Fact is though if people let the dude come back, win titles, gave him props, they cant suddenly be annoyed by 5 year old shit when he leaves under unrelated circumstances.

[Óðinn]

Originally Posted by EtH

I wasn't around for any of it, and you know how I'd have responded haha. Someone the other day said something about Row meeting Pugz at a live event and convincing him but I dunno anything about it.

Lmfaooo, yes, I do indeed.
Aye, seems a bit far fetched but then again you never know, the same determination to talk college mates into and buy said college mates exclusive accounts and get them to vote on his tournament battle on a website, that same drive may have been applied to the live event/talking Pugz into making him Admin... who knows though.

Originally Posted by EtH

Fact is though if people let the dude come back, win titles, gave him props, they cant suddenly be annoyed by 5 year old shit when he leaves under unrelated circumstances.

Agreed.

[Óðinn]

Originally Posted by EtH

I wasn't around for any of it, and you know how I'd have responded haha. Someone the other day said something about Row meeting Pugz at a live event and convincing him but I dunno anything about it.

Lmfaooo, yes, I do indeed.
Aye, seems a bit far fetched but then again you never know, the same determination to talk college mates into and buy said college mates exclusive accounts and get them to vote on his tournament battle on a website, that same drive may have been applied to the live event/talking Pugz into making him Admin... who knows though.

Originally Posted by EtH

Fact is though if people let the dude come back, win titles, gave him props, they cant suddenly be annoyed by 5 year old shit when he leaves under unrelated circumstances.

Agreed.

Why are we talking about stripping Row's titles now all of a sudden? The titles he cheated for should be left up in a vacant status if anything because then you have this entire mess of "well he didn't cheat in the final, he cheated in the semi-final, so should the title go to the person he faced in the final?" And obviously the answer to that is no because the semi-finalist he cheated against would get absolutely nothing in terms of retribution outside of a pat on the back and a "better luck next time!" out of it all.

That's why the finalist for each tourney he won and cheated in shouldn't immediately get a title because you really honestly don't know how far his bullshit leads with any kind of certainty.

Also, I'm a big proponent of having all comments on battles be seen before dropping a vote. You're a grown adult and shouldn't feel swayed in a battle by what the comments say in it to begin with, and just have people's votes deleted if the votes read "What X said, fair's in." or some shit like that.

Why are we talking about stripping Row's titles now all of a sudden? The titles he cheated for should be left up in a vacant status if anything because then you have this entire mess of "well he didn't cheat in the final, he cheated in the semi-final, so should the title go to the person he faced in the final?" And obviously the answer to that is no because the semi-finalist he cheated against would get absolutely nothing in terms of retribution outside of a pat on the back and a "better luck next time!" out of it all.

That's why the finalist for each tourney he won and cheated in shouldn't immediately get a title because you really honestly don't know how far his bullshit leads with any kind of certainty.

Also, I'm a big proponent of having all comments on battles be seen before dropping a vote. You're a grown adult and shouldn't feel swayed in a battle by what the comments say in it to begin with, and just have people's votes deleted if the votes read "What X said, fair's in." or some shit like that.

[total hemorrhage]

Originally Posted by Rieper

Also, I'm a big proponent of having all comments on battles be seen before dropping a vote. You're a grown adult and shouldn't feel swayed in a battle by what the comments say in it to begin with, and just have people's votes deleted if the votes read "What X said, fair's in." or some shit like that.

i mean....that's FAX

[total hemorrhage]

Originally Posted by Rieper

Also, I'm a big proponent of having all comments on battles be seen before dropping a vote. You're a grown adult and shouldn't feel swayed in a battle by what the comments say in it to begin with, and just have people's votes deleted if the votes read "What X said, fair's in." or some shit like that.

i mean....that's FAX