If you believe in God - Lets Beef

#1 09-25-2012, 10:19 PM

as an ALL powerful being. infinite in every sense of the word.. wouldn't he then be able to create a being greater than himself? if he can't then he is imperfect and ceases to be God. if he can, and does, then there is a being greater than God, and God ceases to be God. If he can and chooses not to then he is witholding greater goods from the universe for what other than selfish reasons?... an imperfection, and thus ceases to be God.

09-25-2012, 10:19 PM

as an ALL powerful being. infinite in every sense of the word.. wouldn't he then be able to create a being greater than himself? if he can't then he is imperfect and ceases to be God. if he can, and does, then there is a being greater than God, and God ceases to be God. If he can and chooses not to then he is witholding greater goods from the universe for what other than selfish reasons?... an imperfection, and thus ceases to be God.

**NOBLE** · #2 09-25-2012, 10:24 PM

unless...God cannot create anything other than himself.

**NOBLE** · 09-25-2012, 10:24 PM

unless...God cannot create anything other than himself.

#3 09-25-2012, 10:28 PM

to say that god "can't" create something is to say he is not all powerful

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 PM ----------

man thats tight iv never read that argument made i just came to it sitting and thinking... i feel ancient

09-25-2012, 10:28 PM

to say that god "can't" create something is to say he is not all powerful

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 PM ----------

man thats tight iv never read that argument made i just came to it sitting and thinking... i feel ancient

**NOBLE** · #4 09-25-2012, 10:37 PM

Its actually very similar to the classic Epecurean argument...which states that if we acknowledge that evil exists in the world, then God cannot be both omnipotent (all-powerful) and omni-benevolent (all good) at the same time. Evil must exist either because (A) God lets it exist or because (B) God can't stop it from happening.
If (A) and God lets evil exist, then he is obviously NOT omni-benevolent. If (B) and God can't stop evil from happening, then he must not be omnipotent.
The favorite theodicy for explaining this is that evil comes out of free will.
But as far as God not being able to "create" something, whatever he "creates" must ultimately be from himself...so is the "creation" really something other than God? And if he were to create something that is considered greater than himself, but that creation is still in essence God himself, then he would still be the most powerful being.

**NOBLE** · 09-25-2012, 10:37 PM

Its actually very similar to the classic Epecurean argument...which states that if we acknowledge that evil exists in the world, then God cannot be both omnipotent (all-powerful) and omni-benevolent (all good) at the same time. Evil must exist either because (A) God lets it exist or because (B) God can't stop it from happening.
If (A) and God lets evil exist, then he is obviously NOT omni-benevolent. If (B) and God can't stop evil from happening, then he must not be omnipotent.
The favorite theodicy for explaining this is that evil comes out of free will.
But as far as God not being able to "create" something, whatever he "creates" must ultimately be from himself...so is the "creation" really something other than God? And if he were to create something that is considered greater than himself, but that creation is still in essence God himself, then he would still be the most powerful being.

#5 09-25-2012, 10:45 PM

true... ok im dropping this one, it just gets circular.. but i have another theory iv come to in my meditations....

at the end of the day, for good or evil, humans follow the main path laid out for them.

lemme explain this

lets say, some kids dad is a missionary, his whole family works as missionaries. in order for him to not be exiled from his loved ones, he pretty much must work as a missionary or some other righteous act. To live an evil life would mean exile. plus he sees how its done and it is made simple for him. so he follows the trail blazed for him.

like wise, some kids dad is a CEO of an aggressive oil drilling company. the company has been passed down through his family and to not take his fathers seat would isolate him from the family. so he takes the path laid out for him, most likely. again he sees the ropes of this company, any other occupation seems foreign to him, this was what he was raised knowing how to do.

at the end of the day these two people did the same thing, just different outcomes.
if either of them wanted to be evil instead of good or vise versa, they would have to isolate themselves from the ones they love and pretty much redefine who they are, a very difficult task that most people wouldn't undertake unless inspired by another trail blazer who can shed light on different paths and lifes they can lead.

and the more people take one path, the easier it looks... in a literal sense think of a lot of people taking one path through the woods rather than the other. you're going to look at those woods and take the path with all the brush pushed aside rather than the rugged one. fuck if enough people walk on it one day it might be a road, for more people to walk. maybe later a highway... once a path has set that kind of president its almost impossible to vere away confidently

u follow?

---------- Post added at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

its a new theory.. still hammering it out

09-25-2012, 10:45 PM

true... ok im dropping this one, it just gets circular.. but i have another theory iv come to in my meditations....

at the end of the day, for good or evil, humans follow the main path laid out for them.

lemme explain this

lets say, some kids dad is a missionary, his whole family works as missionaries. in order for him to not be exiled from his loved ones, he pretty much must work as a missionary or some other righteous act. To live an evil life would mean exile. plus he sees how its done and it is made simple for him. so he follows the trail blazed for him.

like wise, some kids dad is a CEO of an aggressive oil drilling company. the company has been passed down through his family and to not take his fathers seat would isolate him from the family. so he takes the path laid out for him, most likely. again he sees the ropes of this company, any other occupation seems foreign to him, this was what he was raised knowing how to do.

at the end of the day these two people did the same thing, just different outcomes.
if either of them wanted to be evil instead of good or vise versa, they would have to isolate themselves from the ones they love and pretty much redefine who they are, a very difficult task that most people wouldn't undertake unless inspired by another trail blazer who can shed light on different paths and lifes they can lead.

and the more people take one path, the easier it looks... in a literal sense think of a lot of people taking one path through the woods rather than the other. you're going to look at those woods and take the path with all the brush pushed aside rather than the rugged one. fuck if enough people walk on it one day it might be a road, for more people to walk. maybe later a highway... once a path has set that kind of president its almost impossible to vere away confidently

u follow?

---------- Post added at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

its a new theory.. still hammering it out