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Originally Posted by D-Reppin

Word

But honestly, I think the FVC is the biggest conspiracy i've ever come across. It almost certainly gives its members immunity from being voted against by each other. Not based on what i've seen, but based on what the system implies. Seeing that FVC votes weigh more than basic votes, it's even harder to outweigh the collective opinions. I don't know what to fully make of that system yet, but it's mad shady.

You're making a lot of unqualified assumptions here. There is no "immunity" for FVC members being voted against by each other. I vote against FVC members all the time..lol. How exactly does the system imply immunity? What makes you think FVC members vote as a collective? Very frequently, we have different opinions on who should win a battle...and each FVC voter is autonomous and chooses their own winner...no one is telling them who to pick as winner.

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Jason

yeah i feel what youre saying entirely
i just dont attribute these faults to the system, i attribute them to the people who give power to the people who run the system.
for example: the FVC concept and system in itself is a fantastic idea, but if the person in charge of selecting the FVC does a poor job... then its not going to work out. but thats the peoples fault, not the system
theres definitely people in the FVC i wouldnt want to be in there.. and as a result i dont think its as effective as it would be if someone more educated selected its members.. but i dont have beef with the FVC but rather with whoever put the people in there that dont belong

no system is perfect.. but i think we do a pretty good job making battles as fair as possible

If you have a problem with "the person in charge of selecting the FVC" or you think I'm doing a poor job by "selecting" people in the FVC that you wouldn't want there, I'd be glad to have that discussion. First of all, the current batch of FVC members weren't arbitrarily selected by me. They earned their spots by proving themselves to be better voters than other people who were also vying for a spot. The main thing that I controlled was who could apply, and they all had voting power to begin with...the majority of them having full vp (2) or more from being prior FVC members.
When you say there are people you wouldn't want in the FVC, exactly who are you referring to and why? My inbox/chatbox is always open to any suggestions and commentaries from you bro...but you've never mentioned this to me privately, otherwise I might have taken steps to solve it. A closed mouth will never get fed. From the get-go, I have tried to include other mods in the selection process of FVC members, and I extended an invitation to all mods to judge in the competition that produced the first FVC members a couple months ago. @RULE @2FUEL @AfterThought @RhetoriK @Teek @Phil Banks can all vouch because they chose to participate. You never did, so I find it a bit ironic that you are now complaining about people being in the FVC that you wouldn't want there.
I even made a thread in the FVC Lounge primarily for mods who want to complain about FVC members, so the channels for you to have a hand in this thing and communicate your concerns are always there. Again, you can always let me know who you don't think belongs there or let me know what you think I could be doing better as the FVC mod. I'm always open to suggestions.

---------- Post added at 02:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Just C

The process to get into the FVC is un needed for me. If you're currently active voting your self and more importantly, if you've been here and active for a long time. You know who is a good voter and a bad 1 by judging them without them knowing in a much more organic way. You don't need to go through a long winded process of a "tournament" to find that out. Not just that but going back to the organic setting, by holding a tournament you're putting them under the spotlight for those few rounds to vote fair. Not because it's the right thing to do. But because they want to win, get a title and to have that raised VP. Once they've got that they just go back to "good battle vb" while dropping suspect votes (not all of them, but a lot do) they can them use the fact they have a higher VP and that they are in blockable to under cover hate vote. Then you get the people who think dropping a long ass expo makes them an educated voter, but when you read them it's nothing but filler and nonsense followed by from what I've seen popularity or sheep voting. There are very few GENUINELY educated and unbiased, unswayable voters on here, and none if very few of them are in the FVC, from what I've seen. Some of them who would never had seen the light of day when I was in charge. (There he goes again) Yeah well it is what it is.

As the former FVC mod, I respect your opinion bro. As far as the "long winded process of a tournament" in selecting FVC members go, you're right...it's not needed in order for me or anyone to form an opinion on who is a good voter.
However, I think you might agree that a consensus between a few educated voters trumps the opinion of one. I think the tournaments through which the current FVC members are selected does more to legitimize not only their position in the FVC, but the FVC as an institution than if they were hand-picked by whoever is the FVC mod. People used to say that all FVC members were dick-riders who got their position by sucking the FVC mod's dick or being cool with him...and the hand-selection process honestly left the FVC open to those sorts of accusations. Now, no one in the FVC is there because I chose them to be. They EARNED their positions through proving themselves to be better voters than their competitors, which I think is superior. If you don't think that goes further to legitimize their stance, then we just have a difference in philosophy.
As far as "putting them under the spotlight for those few rounds to vote fair...not because it's the right thing to do...but because they want to win," everyone that is allowed to join the selection contest are allowed to do so with the requisite that they have some voting power and have been voting fairly for some time. Like I said before, the majority of them already had full vp or more and none of then had 0vp or a vp that had been lowered for any reason 6 weeks prior to the competition. The competitions themselves are a learning tool for anyone who wants to understand what constitutes "good voting" because when the judges compare and contrast two votes and what makes one superior to the other, a lot of things come to light. As far as them doing certain things to win, what they have to do to win often parallels what we hope they do as an FVC member, so I don't have a problem with them taking those measures. You said some of them go back to "GB VB" and hate voting. Who? And where? Prove it and they will be kicked. Personally, from the votes that I've seen once they're in the FVC, they're voting with the same level of diligence the vast majority of the time. If anyone thinks anyone in the FVC is a hate voter or doesn't deserve to be there, please let me know and I will look into it.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by D-Reppin

Word

But honestly, I think the FVC is the biggest conspiracy i've ever come across. It almost certainly gives its members immunity from being voted against by each other. Not based on what i've seen, but based on what the system implies. Seeing that FVC votes weigh more than basic votes, it's even harder to outweigh the collective opinions. I don't know what to fully make of that system yet, but it's mad shady.

You're making a lot of unqualified assumptions here. There is no "immunity" for FVC members being voted against by each other. I vote against FVC members all the time..lol. How exactly does the system imply immunity? What makes you think FVC members vote as a collective? Very frequently, we have different opinions on who should win a battle...and each FVC voter is autonomous and chooses their own winner...no one is telling them who to pick as winner.

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Jason

yeah i feel what youre saying entirely
i just dont attribute these faults to the system, i attribute them to the people who give power to the people who run the system.
for example: the FVC concept and system in itself is a fantastic idea, but if the person in charge of selecting the FVC does a poor job... then its not going to work out. but thats the peoples fault, not the system
theres definitely people in the FVC i wouldnt want to be in there.. and as a result i dont think its as effective as it would be if someone more educated selected its members.. but i dont have beef with the FVC but rather with whoever put the people in there that dont belong

no system is perfect.. but i think we do a pretty good job making battles as fair as possible

If you have a problem with "the person in charge of selecting the FVC" or you think I'm doing a poor job by "selecting" people in the FVC that you wouldn't want there, I'd be glad to have that discussion. First of all, the current batch of FVC members weren't arbitrarily selected by me. They earned their spots by proving themselves to be better voters than other people who were also vying for a spot. The main thing that I controlled was who could apply, and they all had voting power to begin with...the majority of them having full vp (2) or more from being prior FVC members.
When you say there are people you wouldn't want in the FVC, exactly who are you referring to and why? My inbox/chatbox is always open to any suggestions and commentaries from you bro...but you've never mentioned this to me privately, otherwise I might have taken steps to solve it. A closed mouth will never get fed. From the get-go, I have tried to include other mods in the selection process of FVC members, and I extended an invitation to all mods to judge in the competition that produced the first FVC members a couple months ago. @RULE @2FUEL @AfterThought @RhetoriK @Teek @Phil Banks can all vouch because they chose to participate. You never did, so I find it a bit ironic that you are now complaining about people being in the FVC that you wouldn't want there.
I even made a thread in the FVC Lounge primarily for mods who want to complain about FVC members, so the channels for you to have a hand in this thing and communicate your concerns are always there. Again, you can always let me know who you don't think belongs there or let me know what you think I could be doing better as the FVC mod. I'm always open to suggestions.

---------- Post added at 02:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Just C

The process to get into the FVC is un needed for me. If you're currently active voting your self and more importantly, if you've been here and active for a long time. You know who is a good voter and a bad 1 by judging them without them knowing in a much more organic way. You don't need to go through a long winded process of a "tournament" to find that out. Not just that but going back to the organic setting, by holding a tournament you're putting them under the spotlight for those few rounds to vote fair. Not because it's the right thing to do. But because they want to win, get a title and to have that raised VP. Once they've got that they just go back to "good battle vb" while dropping suspect votes (not all of them, but a lot do) they can them use the fact they have a higher VP and that they are in blockable to under cover hate vote. Then you get the people who think dropping a long ass expo makes them an educated voter, but when you read them it's nothing but filler and nonsense followed by from what I've seen popularity or sheep voting. There are very few GENUINELY educated and unbiased, unswayable voters on here, and none if very few of them are in the FVC, from what I've seen. Some of them who would never had seen the light of day when I was in charge. (There he goes again) Yeah well it is what it is.

As the former FVC mod, I respect your opinion bro. As far as the "long winded process of a tournament" in selecting FVC members go, you're right...it's not needed in order for me or anyone to form an opinion on who is a good voter.
However, I think you might agree that a consensus between a few educated voters trumps the opinion of one. I think the tournaments through which the current FVC members are selected does more to legitimize not only their position in the FVC, but the FVC as an institution than if they were hand-picked by whoever is the FVC mod. People used to say that all FVC members were dick-riders who got their position by sucking the FVC mod's dick or being cool with him...and the hand-selection process honestly left the FVC open to those sorts of accusations. Now, no one in the FVC is there because I chose them to be. They EARNED their positions through proving themselves to be better voters than their competitors, which I think is superior. If you don't think that goes further to legitimize their stance, then we just have a difference in philosophy.
As far as "putting them under the spotlight for those few rounds to vote fair...not because it's the right thing to do...but because they want to win," everyone that is allowed to join the selection contest are allowed to do so with the requisite that they have some voting power and have been voting fairly for some time. Like I said before, the majority of them already had full vp or more and none of then had 0vp or a vp that had been lowered for any reason 6 weeks prior to the competition. The competitions themselves are a learning tool for anyone who wants to understand what constitutes "good voting" because when the judges compare and contrast two votes and what makes one superior to the other, a lot of things come to light. As far as them doing certain things to win, what they have to do to win often parallels what we hope they do as an FVC member, so I don't have a problem with them taking those measures. You said some of them go back to "GB VB" and hate voting. Who? And where? Prove it and they will be kicked. Personally, from the votes that I've seen once they're in the FVC, they're voting with the same level of diligence the vast majority of the time. If anyone thinks anyone in the FVC is a hate voter or doesn't deserve to be there, please let me know and I will look into it.