Originally Posted by Indianapolis Jones

I'm talking GGG vs Connor in the Octogon.

THOUGH. I would favour GGG's chances against the best UFC 160's than Mc against the top 160's from boxing. Shit I'd favour GGG against UFC 160'S OVER Mcgregor against 154's in boxing where you got the Charlos and Erisandy Lara or 147 with Thurman Porter and Spence.

Connor would be an average at best puncher with severe stamina issues

GGG would be the most elite puncher/striker (however you want to phrase it) in UFC Middleweight history with an Iron chin and atleast (if limited) judo/wrestling background.

I mean we can talk James Toneys enture into UFC but he was lazy cocky out of shape and never took it serious which is well documented. Then you have Ray Mercer at 40 who came in and sparked out Tim Sylvia in a round.

Holly Holme vs Rousy

What success has there been the other way around?

There is nothing to suggest someone like GGG would struggle in the Oc.

Would he lose fights? I'd be willing to bet on it. But every UFC fighter loses at some point given how many factors go into it and styles make fights. But I'd bet he'd have more successes than failiures and would walk away with a respectable record and possibly a title under his name. Connor would be completely in the negative unless they spoon fed him complete bums. Anyone Elite would clown him.

Well he'd obviously have a higher chance because of the gloves alone. To be fair, I give both very little chance. Mayweather was perfect for McGregor to look good against because stylistically he was able to throw some shots. Not many people take rounds off or stay behind a block like Mayweather. If Conor was fighting even a 50th ranked guy, he'd probably find it much more difficult to be as good because he'd have to deal with aggressive footwork which would engulf him in addition to just simply having a glove in his face way too often to work.

But really, GGG's got very little chance of keeping it standing. I do agree though that I favour him just because Lara, Charlos, Thurman, Porter, Spence etc. don't really have a single thing to worry about from McGregor where as while GGG would get taken down and submitted 99/100 by every top LW in UFC, he's also got a one shot chance. I heavily rooted for James Toney to land his one on Couture, I love a one shot chance.

I wouldn't call his stamina issues "severe". I think Mayweather did a great job of sensing Conor was slowing, then jumping on his toes to force him to throw. The thing is, you don't see people that tired because you don't see people just going for it. It's why I liked the fight. It's so often that you see someone 11 down and they don't swing for the fences in the 12th. Conor, not being a big time boxer or anything, went out and fought like every single round and every single second mattered. I enjoyed the fight. He does for sure have stamina issues, but I think Nate Diaz and the way Floyd fought him also shine credit on the aggressor in those situations.

In boxing Conor's likely an amateur power guy because he doesn't put his full power into his shots. Conor's a guy who hits the perfect place at the perfect time to hurt people, not someone who puts a lot of power behind each shot. Because of boxing gloves, that perfect spot is much lower and the need to create it becomes much higher. It's rare even top guys knock each other out. With the smaller gloves, COnor can find the sweet spot but in boxing, he doesn't know how to create it as much and he doesn't dig enough behind it to really be a big knockout artist (don't pay attention to internet McGregor fans).

James Toney was lazy and out of shape. Tim Sylvia on the other hand, stallion haha. The problem you're gonna have here Just if you're on day 1 of this conversation, I've been having it for years. For example, you didn't address that Tim Sylvia and Ray Mercer agreed to only fight stand up beforehand, or that Ray Mercer got submitted by Kimbo Slice in his fight before it (or that he tapped out due to leg kicks in a kickboxing fight).

Holm Vs Rousey amuses the fuck out of me. Yeah, Holly Holm, training in that popular boxing gym "Jackson & Winklejohn MMA" for her entire career, knocked out Ronda Rousey with that killer boxing technique known as the head kick.

There's nothing to suggest GGG would struggle? Well the basic lack of any knowledge in any of the disciplines is a pretty decent give away. Seriously you're having the discussion like this shit wasn't very clearly displayed 15 years ago at UFC 1. If you have absolutely no skill in one aspect of MMA, you're going to get exposed. Let alone absolutely no skill in all but one aspect which would be GGG's case. If he went away and trained his wrestling for 5 years with a top level guy....he could probably be a top 30ish MMA fighter with an alright 15-6 record or something, because he'd still never have a day of jiu jitsu in his life. It's a complete game.

"Spoon fed him complete bums", well, it's boxing isn't it? Not uncommon to see someone go 20-0 without even fighting someone with a winning record. But your knowledge of what it takes to defend a double leg takedown from an NCAA wrestler is severely lacking. Saying GGG could stuff a takedown attempt from Tyron Woodley is literally as ridiculous as me saying I could take a punch from GGG to the face. GGG has as much wrestling background as McGregor had boxing background. GGG has as much jiu jitsu experience as I do. Hell there's a chance I'd catch him off of my back just by knowing the difference between a triangle and a rear naked.

This whole discussion IS MMA. "Can a boxer defend against a wrestler?". This was the question in 1993, and they put it to the test. No one could handle the grapplers, so the strikers began to train their wrestling and more importantly wrestlers began to train their striking. Guys began being able to keep the fight standing against jiu jitsu guys simply by being better wrestlers, and as the wrestler had trained his striking, he was able to do the more damage on the feet. This is the entire discussion. "MMA fighter Vs boxer" isn't a thing. If the boxer misses literally that first punch, the fights over. Randy Couture didn't take Toney down because Toney was fat and out of shape. Couture used an ankle pick from a shoot, a ridiculously uncommon move that no one even uses because they'd laugh and walk away. But when you're facing someone with ZERO grappling experience, they have no idea what you are doing and/or how to defend it.

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Jones

I'm talking GGG vs Connor in the Octogon.

THOUGH. I would favour GGG's chances against the best UFC 160's than Mc against the top 160's from boxing. Shit I'd favour GGG against UFC 160'S OVER Mcgregor against 154's in boxing where you got the Charlos and Erisandy Lara or 147 with Thurman Porter and Spence.

Connor would be an average at best puncher with severe stamina issues

GGG would be the most elite puncher/striker (however you want to phrase it) in UFC Middleweight history with an Iron chin and atleast (if limited) judo/wrestling background.

I mean we can talk James Toneys enture into UFC but he was lazy cocky out of shape and never took it serious which is well documented. Then you have Ray Mercer at 40 who came in and sparked out Tim Sylvia in a round.

Holly Holme vs Rousy

What success has there been the other way around?

There is nothing to suggest someone like GGG would struggle in the Oc.

Would he lose fights? I'd be willing to bet on it. But every UFC fighter loses at some point given how many factors go into it and styles make fights. But I'd bet he'd have more successes than failiures and would walk away with a respectable record and possibly a title under his name. Connor would be completely in the negative unless they spoon fed him complete bums. Anyone Elite would clown him.

Well he'd obviously have a higher chance because of the gloves alone. To be fair, I give both very little chance. Mayweather was perfect for McGregor to look good against because stylistically he was able to throw some shots. Not many people take rounds off or stay behind a block like Mayweather. If Conor was fighting even a 50th ranked guy, he'd probably find it much more difficult to be as good because he'd have to deal with aggressive footwork which would engulf him in addition to just simply having a glove in his face way too often to work.

But really, GGG's got very little chance of keeping it standing. I do agree though that I favour him just because Lara, Charlos, Thurman, Porter, Spence etc. don't really have a single thing to worry about from McGregor where as while GGG would get taken down and submitted 99/100 by every top LW in UFC, he's also got a one shot chance. I heavily rooted for James Toney to land his one on Couture, I love a one shot chance.

I wouldn't call his stamina issues "severe". I think Mayweather did a great job of sensing Conor was slowing, then jumping on his toes to force him to throw. The thing is, you don't see people that tired because you don't see people just going for it. It's why I liked the fight. It's so often that you see someone 11 down and they don't swing for the fences in the 12th. Conor, not being a big time boxer or anything, went out and fought like every single round and every single second mattered. I enjoyed the fight. He does for sure have stamina issues, but I think Nate Diaz and the way Floyd fought him also shine credit on the aggressor in those situations.

In boxing Conor's likely an amateur power guy because he doesn't put his full power into his shots. Conor's a guy who hits the perfect place at the perfect time to hurt people, not someone who puts a lot of power behind each shot. Because of boxing gloves, that perfect spot is much lower and the need to create it becomes much higher. It's rare even top guys knock each other out. With the smaller gloves, COnor can find the sweet spot but in boxing, he doesn't know how to create it as much and he doesn't dig enough behind it to really be a big knockout artist (don't pay attention to internet McGregor fans).

James Toney was lazy and out of shape. Tim Sylvia on the other hand, stallion haha. The problem you're gonna have here Just if you're on day 1 of this conversation, I've been having it for years. For example, you didn't address that Tim Sylvia and Ray Mercer agreed to only fight stand up beforehand, or that Ray Mercer got submitted by Kimbo Slice in his fight before it (or that he tapped out due to leg kicks in a kickboxing fight).

Holm Vs Rousey amuses the fuck out of me. Yeah, Holly Holm, training in that popular boxing gym "Jackson & Winklejohn MMA" for her entire career, knocked out Ronda Rousey with that killer boxing technique known as the head kick.

There's nothing to suggest GGG would struggle? Well the basic lack of any knowledge in any of the disciplines is a pretty decent give away. Seriously you're having the discussion like this shit wasn't very clearly displayed 15 years ago at UFC 1. If you have absolutely no skill in one aspect of MMA, you're going to get exposed. Let alone absolutely no skill in all but one aspect which would be GGG's case. If he went away and trained his wrestling for 5 years with a top level guy....he could probably be a top 30ish MMA fighter with an alright 15-6 record or something, because he'd still never have a day of jiu jitsu in his life. It's a complete game.

"Spoon fed him complete bums", well, it's boxing isn't it? Not uncommon to see someone go 20-0 without even fighting someone with a winning record. But your knowledge of what it takes to defend a double leg takedown from an NCAA wrestler is severely lacking. Saying GGG could stuff a takedown attempt from Tyron Woodley is literally as ridiculous as me saying I could take a punch from GGG to the face. GGG has as much wrestling background as McGregor had boxing background. GGG has as much jiu jitsu experience as I do. Hell there's a chance I'd catch him off of my back just by knowing the difference between a triangle and a rear naked.

This whole discussion IS MMA. "Can a boxer defend against a wrestler?". This was the question in 1993, and they put it to the test. No one could handle the grapplers, so the strikers began to train their wrestling and more importantly wrestlers began to train their striking. Guys began being able to keep the fight standing against jiu jitsu guys simply by being better wrestlers, and as the wrestler had trained his striking, he was able to do the more damage on the feet. This is the entire discussion. "MMA fighter Vs boxer" isn't a thing. If the boxer misses literally that first punch, the fights over. Randy Couture didn't take Toney down because Toney was fat and out of shape. Couture used an ankle pick from a shoot, a ridiculously uncommon move that no one even uses because they'd laugh and walk away. But when you're facing someone with ZERO grappling experience, they have no idea what you are doing and/or how to defend it.