Should we get rid of the 1-10 scale?
 

First off a 1 to 10 rating scale is inconsistent. It can never be a solid measurement of a persons skill level or progression when 1 mans 10 is another mans 5 is another mans 4 is another mans 2 is another mans 8 ect ect ect.

Thanks to this arbitrary system you can see someone post well thought out witty and intricate lines lose out on a hotlist place to some one due to the more critical voters being attracted to the better writers and voting lower due to their more critical voting.

While the lazier writers /beginner level writers get a spot on the hotlist due to the more knowledgeable/critical voters not voting on them because they don't want to read garbage while the people on that same simple level vote anything from 7's to 10's in their droves because it's easier for their lower level confined thinking to get. But when they vote on a more accomplished writers battles they vote lower because they don't get it or they see the more accomplished voters getting critical and feel the need to follow suit on some sheeple shit.

Not only that. But because we have this 1 to 10 scale. People tend to focus on the score more than the feedback. Especially if it's a low score.. You take away the scoring system and it breaks down that emotional barrier that is a low score and opens up a route to the feedback.

The system is dated and counter productive and causes more problems than it solves.

Remove the rating scale and replace it with a simple click to vote for winner. And for tracks a like or dislike tab

Hotlist requirements should be based on 2 thing.

1) The amount of votes a battles gets.
2) The total accumulated VP.

It's a lot easier to receive a dislike as 1 mans preference than it is to receive 1 out of 10. Just as it is easier to take someone simply voting for the other guy rather than them voting for the other guy THEN to add insult to injury hand you a 1 out of 10

No more bitching about low rates. No more inconsistency's of seeing a dope verse get a 5 and a really shitty 1 get a fucking 10.

You vote your winner, leave your feedback. nobodys got cause to complain. Nice and simple. Nice and clean. straight to the point. no imaginary meter judging your skill level.

This is an excellent idea, and I've seen it thrown around before.I feel like, since with the voting system it is the removal of something in battles, it would be a much easier change than a recoded voting system entirely. And I assume the addition of like, or dislike options would be a simplistic coding change also, but, I have no knowledge of computer sciences.

I quite like the idea. That or scale down the voting options to a 1-5 instead of 1-10.

If I add a poll would you be willing to vote? who knows if enough people vote we might be able to make it happen.

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

tha 1-5 is golden aswell, less room to bitch about. some type off grading scale is needed.

Just C wants to get rid of the whole site lol

But yea I can agree with that

I like the idea.... a diff rating system for tracks would be cool

i like the 1-5 thing

Voted.

I kind of agree on getting rid of it, but at the same time don't. A simple button on battles to choose who wins would be cool, but on the other hand a number range you can rate each emcee on is still relevant. More than just a simple.."This person won because they had better bars"...how much better was the bars? Using Numerology let's both battlers know the level that their Voters think that they're on. I.E. if a battle is being voted on and there's mostly consitant low votes for one emcee, then they know they need to step it up a lil bit. Not to mention the problem with People low voting, or not even reading or listening to battles and just giving a low and random vote just to get credits. If we take away the Number system it doesn't really prevent this, A person can still just go without listening or reading and vote for their "favorite" or whoever they decide to hastly vote for just for Credits. I always leave an expo on who I voted for and why, to be fair. I don't see a problem with the rating system the way it is, the Value of the number represents the quality of the verse as long with whatever expo a person decides to leave of why they came up with that number.

If someone votes like this..
Emcee #1 Emcee #2
(6) (8)
(5) (9)
(7) (7)
(6) (9)
(7) (8)

That's saying Emcee #1 came with a slightly less par verse
and that Emcee #2 had the better verse, with mostly consistant High #'s
You can get an average rate of Each Emcee by using the "Mean" of the numbers
as well as the consistency of the "Mode" which would be the # that appears the Most Often.

---------- Post added at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

Plus, Just curious...but wouldn't you have to change the requirements for "Awards" too with this theory?... I've seen a majority of Award requirements are based off the Number Voting System.. I.E. "Rated 8+" "Rated 9+" "Rated 10" etc. Those being Mostly for Cyphers and Text Battles..but also includes Traccs.

You use your explanation on why and how someone won/was better, bar or whole verse. it forces people to speak their minds rather than hide behind a make believe rating system.

Nobody takes anything away from a number used in an inconsistent system since everyone judges differently, they take something away from the hows and whys.

This is of course only 1 reason for the change.

While I Agree With You Just, I Can See People Abusing It And Just Clicking Who Won Then Typing "FV VB" or "One Was Better Then The Other" "One Slightly Edged It. THE RULERS VOTE" "i lik da one verse ova da oda 1 MURDA" "*Copies & Pastes Lines From Only One Verse But Doesn't Say Anything About Them", etc.
What's To Stop Them From Doing That Besides Maybe Having A Moderator Look At The Battle?

This is why gaming and movie critics are moving/moved away from 1-10 rating scales ages ago. They mean nothing. All that matters is was it good? why was it good? why wasn't it good? what nees to be improved?

a 1-10 scales doesn't shed any light on these critical factors. It offers nothing constructive. no food for thought. especially when more people are rating the same piece using a 1 TO 10 because the ratings end up all over the place.

I can't judge if I'm doing something right when so many people of varying levels of knowledge are using a broad 1 to 10 scale. But if they explain the why's and hows I have something to take back to the drawing board to help improve in the future as well as the insight to judge whether or not they know what they're talking about/took the time to read.

That has nothing to do with the system thats a people problem. people do that now only their manipulating a 1 to 10 scale to disguise hate as a legit vote or to piss people off by giving them a 1.

Why don't we actually use the star system that's below the battles? Like the 1-5 rating, but with stars so it's not numbers. The more stars acquired you get into the hot-listings. So people can still vote, but can choose how many stars they think the battle is? @Just C

I'd agree to a 1-5 scale.

There would be less complaining about ratings.

Because a 1 is still a 1. whether it's a number or a star, it's a low vote and people are being judged by a number leading to emotional outburst/accusations of hate. If you just vote for the winner you can't complain. at least no where near as much.

you vote to determine a winner. the number scale is an un needed extra which can either cause un just ego or un fair deflation. If you want to tell someone how they did do it with words, not numbers.

People complain about getting a 6/10, thinking that means their verse is horrible, but a score of 6 actaully represents a decent score.

3/5 is the same as 6/10, but I feel people wouldn't complain as much becuase they would actually see 3/5 as decent.

Exactly. People focus on the number rather than the reasoning behind it. If you take that number out then people HAVE to go to the reasoning behind not getting the vote. this opens the door to feedback, plus it gives people a reason to leave feedback rather than feeling like it would be a waste of time because chances are the guys going to see the num,ber and the number only because he feels some sort of way before hearing you out and now he aint tryna hear you out, any feedback he sees is clouded by emotion.

Your right, 3/5 does look better. But it's a band aid approach rather than grabbing the problem by the scruff of the kneck and fixing it. Though the 1-5 scale is better than 1-10. it's still a dated flawed system which takes the attention away from the hows and whys which are most important. The number scale is the problem. not the size of it.


.......

The site is (according to pugz) getting an update next month. I just figured now is as good a time as ever to see what changes we can make to better the experiance.

I feel since the simple vote for winner system (in my opinion) is the way to go and a way to better help people give as well as take on board actual feedback because theirs not this nagging number getting in the way.

Another change to compliment it would be an overhaul of the comment system (Again just ideas)

This is another thing which is dated and in no way feedback friendly, it's clunky, it's ugly, it's hard to read, it's hard to write for when trying to get your point across.

You add (finally) a character minimum. And you add forum post features to the battle comment section so you can bold, quote and highlight key parts and points as well as.....please god.. have the ability to use your space and enter keys so we're not stuck having to read a brick wall of text or put endless .......................'s just to space shit out and make it readable.


To work it would all have to come in 1 package update.

1-5 is definitely more fitting.

That should be optional. We shouldn't HAVE to rate them. If they wanna know what they're rated, that's desperate. Imo

:shrugs:

This. I know I can be a stubborn bastard but it's making my head hurt how people aren't getting that. We might as well leave the system as is if that's the solution.

I'd like someone to explain in favour of a 1 to 5 as to why it would make a significant enough change to justify putting in the time and effort replacing the current system with it. Because from where I'm sitting it's exactly the same system.

What do the numbers bring? they aren't required to pick a winner. they wont be required to make the hotlist. they just get in the way and cause problems. and a 1 to 5 will be exactly the same because your still rating people by numbers rather than with feedback.

It could work...but the battles would have to be heavily monitored by Mods. Just to make it fair and make sure people are not simply voting for one side or the other for a "Credit" or if 2 or more emcees are beefing..and one blatantly "hate" votes. Not everyone leaves a expo of why they thought 1 or the other won..Like Stu said, people just go on battles and say "Gb, Vb" half the time without even reviewing a verse let alone giving an expo of why that person won. Just a quicc rate for a quicc Credit. There'd be a lot of work involved in this conversion.

I like Rule's suggestion on tha 1-5 voting system. We need sometime of rating system & 1-5 would shorten up and most likely change alot of arguments..It'd be good to experiment that before completely getting rid of the number rates in general.

~1~

get rid of it baby boy

This site is probably the first site ive been on to have a mandatory rating system being implemented.. its really unnecesary tbh..the best solution would be to eliminate it entirely and make members more accountable to how they vote.. if a poor voting expo such as fvgb gets deleted.. the person that dropped that vote loses the credit for it. Which would make peeps think twice About tryin to get the easy credit..also more overturned battles if somehow poor votes slip thru the cracks but is adressed via complaints.. not to mention expos should be hidden cept to the battlers.and lastly. Have an option menu in the mod tools. To determine the reason for the vote deletion.. whether its 1.bad or poor vote. 2. For other reasons... and if the member gets too many votes deleted by mods. Then an algorithm will lower his vp automatically for every 10 poor votes.. etc.. on top of mod descretion

i don't really see a problem in the 1-10 tbh, everyone has their own opinion period, I think all votes should be hidden as they are In tourneys though .

Decent idea...I always thought only certain people could vote on certain battles...like set up a:

LIGHTWEIGHT DIVISION: For beginners, new users and only they can vote on LIGHTWEIGHT DIVISION BATTLES

MIDDLEWEIGHT DIVISION: For Rookies starting to make a presence on the site and they can only vote on MIDDLEWEIGHT BATTLES & LIGHTWEIGHT BATTLES

HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION: For battlers with Heavyweight status and only other Heavyweight battlers can vote in the HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION, MIDDLEWEIGHT DIVISION, AND LIGHTWEIGHT DIVISION...

You would have to embed a system to determine the skill level of a battler of course and may require some extra coding but its something I've always thought would bring some more activity and motivation to the site while also bettering the voting system by not allowing "noobs" vote on "Vets" battles with 5's and shit when they dont understand the bars!

@RULE @Just C @Dissizit @Mindless @Pugz @ILLoKWENT @Phil Banks @ALL MODS/ADMINS @LETSBEEF!!!!!!!!!!!

What alterations? No alterations have been made to the track or battle format in anyway.

People grow up, people grow tired. no new blood replaces. thats the problem.

And people do care about getting 10'. we've both been here long enough to know this. People bitch n cry hater when they get lower rate than they THINK htey deserve. It's been a track side trademark since we've both been here.

but then what will the artists (^^) use as a crutch?

I agree that having a hotlist based on amount of votes and accumulated VP would be more ideal in reflecting the battles that should be on the hotlist. However, I disagree with some of your premises and reasoning for wanting to get rid of the rating scale. There is nothing wrong with one man perceiving a verse to be a 10 and another man perceiving the same verse to be a 5. That's just human nature to have varying views and I wouldn't even seek to control that. I wouldn't say the rating scale is "inconsistent" because of instances like that...more like the voters themselves are inconsistent with each other as far as how they rate certain verses. If we're talking "inconsistent" as far as some sniper getting 10's from his buddy voters and a vet getting 6's and 7's from more educated voters, I think the fact that these are different voters on different battles makes things pretty self-explanatory. When you hover over the Estimated Text/Audio Skill stars under any battler's name http://www.letsbeef.com/images/star-100.jpg, the number you see is the average of all the ratings they have ever received in their Text/Audio battles. When you hover and compare the numerical star ratings of people who most people would consider vets or heavyweights with everyone else, including the snipers who we may have seen receiving 10's once or twice and being on top of the hotlist, the system is actually pretty accurate. Because of that, I'd venture to say that cases where snipers are receiving higher ratings and vets receives lower ratings because their battles are attracting more critical voters are FAR more the exception than the norm. It doesn't merit getting rid of it because of that alone. Getting rid of the scale certainly would end people complaining about "low ratings", but I highly doubt the general quality of feedback given by voters would be any better than it is now, but it would be the only measure, so yes, I can see how it may lead to battlers focusing more on the feedback. I don't think having a minimum character in order to place a vote (in order to get more feedback) is a good idea either. From a battler's perspective, the more people have to say, the better...and we all hate those FV VB comments...but realistically, I think it would lead to people voting even less. People are lazy. Forcing them to have to input a certain amount of words when all they want to say is "I think one got it" will make them even less inclined to vote. So it sounds like a good idea that would lead to longer, better expos, but I don't think it would work out the way some of you might think. It will make voting across the site even more dead.
I do agree with you that having a hotlist based on the two things you mentioned, amount of total VP and votes...makes a lot of sense, but I'd be more in favor of tweaking the current system to resolve some of the issues and attain the same results than a complete replacement for a number of reasons which I'm not going to get into right now because it will be another novel.
One practical way to approach this would be to just have the rating scale as an option....the same way you can vote on battles and and pick a winner without necessarily having to rate their metaphor, wordplay and punchline skills. Then people can pick a winner and drop an expo without rating...but if they also want to give a rating, they can do so as well.

wooooah... I am nooot reading all that ^

Thats a lot to respond to. Not that I disagree. But for a lot of what you said there is a counter argument. And it comes down to which will have the bigger effect and will that effect be for better or worse. I'll have to come back when I have time to sit down and break it down.

But for now. Do you agree or disagree that (for argument sake) removing the rating scale will reduce a lot of the arguing/accusations of hate voting. Do you agree or diagree that the majority of people see numbers before they see words when it comes to having their work or other work judged? (It' a convenience thing)

People don't even use the rating scale properly anyway. You know this. I know this. Everyone knows this. People hand out 10's like candy on the track section no matter how poorly executed the piece in question is. So whats the point? It has, still is, and always will be manipulated. there's no truth to the system. This system pushes the shite above the great. It's a system tailor made for back scratching and false plaudits and to gain unjustified high rankings. Without it and with a VP system in place, it wont be perfect. what system is? but it will a million times more fair and accurate than what we currently have.