Does social standard determine morality?

Is what is socially acceptable always what is moral?

Is what is moral always what is socially acceptable?

Discuss.

Is what is socially acceptable always what is moral?

Is what is moral always what is socially acceptable?

Discuss.

[NOBLE]

I think moral quality boils down to an individual's intention and motivation for committing an act.

[NOBLE]

I think moral quality boils down to an individual's intention and motivation for committing an act.

[Babylon]

Not "always" but historically, what a system agrees & deems is acceptable or non-acceptable seems to begin playing on the nationalistic/tribal sides in a big part of people within that system, and lots of times that sense of "being a part of a team" can allow a population to feel justified in otherwise immoral behavior.

[Babylon]

Not "always" but historically, what a system agrees & deems is acceptable or non-acceptable seems to begin playing on the nationalistic/tribal sides in a big part of people within that system, and lots of times that sense of "being a part of a team" can allow a population to feel justified in otherwise immoral behavior.

Originally Posted by Babylon

Not "always" but historically, what a system agrees & deems is acceptable or non-acceptable seems to begin playing on the nationalistic/tribal sides in a big part of people within that system, and lots of times that sense of "being a part of a team" can allow a population to feel justified in otherwise immoral behavior.

Does justification necessitate morality, though? If not, is it still not immoral behavior, just accepted immoral behavior?

Originally Posted by Babylon

Not "always" but historically, what a system agrees & deems is acceptable or non-acceptable seems to begin playing on the nationalistic/tribal sides in a big part of people within that system, and lots of times that sense of "being a part of a team" can allow a population to feel justified in otherwise immoral behavior.

Does justification necessitate morality, though? If not, is it still not immoral behavior, just accepted immoral behavior?

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by Rant

Does justification necessitate morality, though? If not, is it still not immoral behavior, just accepted immoral behavior?

thats exactly what it is, I'm speaking on the human ability to suspend morality in the moment for some misplaced greater sense of the concept. Like a radical christian killing her child before the age of accountability to guarantee him a spot in heaven. The motivation behind carrying out immoral behavior in a flawed act of self perceived justice is a driving factor in how most people end up suspending present moment morality to carry out an otherwise immoral act, and every society uses that logic to some degree from justifying war to allowing some to feel justified in pepper spraying people with trump hats on. I see society having large implications on the actual sense of morality in a population, speaking on a nation-by-nation basis.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by Rant

Does justification necessitate morality, though? If not, is it still not immoral behavior, just accepted immoral behavior?

thats exactly what it is, I'm speaking on the human ability to suspend morality in the moment for some misplaced greater sense of the concept. Like a radical christian killing her child before the age of accountability to guarantee him a spot in heaven. The motivation behind carrying out immoral behavior in a flawed act of self perceived justice is a driving factor in how most people end up suspending present moment morality to carry out an otherwise immoral act, and every society uses that logic to some degree from justifying war to allowing some to feel justified in pepper spraying people with trump hats on. I see society having large implications on the actual sense of morality in a population, speaking on a nation-by-nation basis.

Originally Posted by Babylon

thats exactly what it is, I'm speaking on the human ability to suspend morality in the moment for some misplaced greater sense of the concept. Like a radical christian killing her child before the age of accountability to guarantee him a spot in heaven. The motivation behind carrying out immoral behavior in a flawed act of self perceived justice is a driving factor in how most people end up suspending present moment morality to carry out an otherwise immoral act, and every society uses that logic to some degree from justifying war to allowing some to feel justified in pepper spraying people with trump hats on. I see society having large implications on the actual sense of morality in a population, speaking on a nation-by-nation basis.

So, you do not believe that social standard determines morality? But, rather, the sense of morality?

Originally Posted by Babylon

thats exactly what it is, I'm speaking on the human ability to suspend morality in the moment for some misplaced greater sense of the concept. Like a radical christian killing her child before the age of accountability to guarantee him a spot in heaven. The motivation behind carrying out immoral behavior in a flawed act of self perceived justice is a driving factor in how most people end up suspending present moment morality to carry out an otherwise immoral act, and every society uses that logic to some degree from justifying war to allowing some to feel justified in pepper spraying people with trump hats on. I see society having large implications on the actual sense of morality in a population, speaking on a nation-by-nation basis.

So, you do not believe that social standard determines morality? But, rather, the sense of morality?

I recently had a similar convo with someone, this person said to me nothing is good or bad, while thats true to some extent, i mean its a matter of perception, i still feel like its just a human trait to understand whats right an wrong as in you can tell when another being is in need of help an most people want to help to some extent... it's an empathy thing which we all have, psychopaths do not have this though.

As for social norms still again the empathy is there, for example if it was a monthly thing for a tribe of people in there society to feed a person to the local crocodile but one child in the tribe saw the pain an suffering it caused that person and didn't like these ways he is more in touch with empathy which surpass the norms of his tribe, do you get what i mean?

thats what i think about this.

I recently had a similar convo with someone, this person said to me nothing is good or bad, while thats true to some extent, i mean its a matter of perception, i still feel like its just a human trait to understand whats right an wrong as in you can tell when another being is in need of help an most people want to help to some extent... it's an empathy thing which we all have, psychopaths do not have this though.

As for social norms still again the empathy is there, for example if it was a monthly thing for a tribe of people in there society to feed a person to the local crocodile but one child in the tribe saw the pain an suffering it caused that person and didn't like these ways he is more in touch with empathy which surpass the norms of his tribe, do you get what i mean?

thats what i think about this.

Essentially yes. I had a guy before try to tell me that humans have "moral code", which is why asking about rapists and murderers was irrelevant in his beliefs in anarchy. He would never reply though when I discussed civilisations without a government who believe it is completely okay to eat people or burn children alive and shit.

An easy example is the middle east. This is a place without most of the senses of morality which we have developed, so things like children marrying and having sex isn't seen as the worst thing in the world to them, but it's disgusting and detestable by us.

I feel morality has always trended upwards, although I think the clashes as of late has been one of the first drops in a long time. Before, people might have been tricked but there was still a reason. You were brought up to believe that the way of the KKK was right, or that the war in Iraq was justified. But now we have people who were raised perfectly normal, committing horrible acts and starting all sorts of violence and riots simply over someone trying to do a talk about something you disagree with. These people can't even justify their actions, there is no defence to it.

Essentially yes. I had a guy before try to tell me that humans have "moral code", which is why asking about rapists and murderers was irrelevant in his beliefs in anarchy. He would never reply though when I discussed civilisations without a government who believe it is completely okay to eat people or burn children alive and shit.

An easy example is the middle east. This is a place without most of the senses of morality which we have developed, so things like children marrying and having sex isn't seen as the worst thing in the world to them, but it's disgusting and detestable by us.

I feel morality has always trended upwards, although I think the clashes as of late has been one of the first drops in a long time. Before, people might have been tricked but there was still a reason. You were brought up to believe that the way of the KKK was right, or that the war in Iraq was justified. But now we have people who were raised perfectly normal, committing horrible acts and starting all sorts of violence and riots simply over someone trying to do a talk about something you disagree with. These people can't even justify their actions, there is no defence to it.

Originally Posted by Supsie

I recently had a similar convo with someone, this person said to me nothing is good or bad, while thats true to some extent, i mean its a matter of perception, i still feel like its just a human trait to understand whats right an wrong as in you can tell when another being is in need of help an most people want to help to some extent... it's an empathy thing which we all have, psychopaths do not have this though.

As for social norms still again the empathy is there, for example if it was a monthly thing for a tribe of people in there society to feed a person to the local crocodile but one child in the tribe saw the pain an suffering it caused that person and didn't like these ways he is more in touch with empathy which surpass the norms of his tribe, do you get what i mean?

thats what i think about this.

You're slightly mistaken here. Primary psychopaths, which are predominantly pathological do not experience empathy. Secondary psychopaths, a more environmentally influenced categorization are perfectly capable of such feelings. Often times too much so, leading to anxietal and explosive traits.

Originally Posted by Supsie

I recently had a similar convo with someone, this person said to me nothing is good or bad, while thats true to some extent, i mean its a matter of perception, i still feel like its just a human trait to understand whats right an wrong as in you can tell when another being is in need of help an most people want to help to some extent... it's an empathy thing which we all have, psychopaths do not have this though.

As for social norms still again the empathy is there, for example if it was a monthly thing for a tribe of people in there society to feed a person to the local crocodile but one child in the tribe saw the pain an suffering it caused that person and didn't like these ways he is more in touch with empathy which surpass the norms of his tribe, do you get what i mean?

thats what i think about this.

You're slightly mistaken here. Primary psychopaths, which are predominantly pathological do not experience empathy. Secondary psychopaths, a more environmentally influenced categorization are perfectly capable of such feelings. Often times too much so, leading to anxietal and explosive traits.

I personally am not a big believer in the categories of psychopaths. I think people's minds work too independently from one another, and experiences shape our minds too much that people can't be drawn down to the same box so simplistically.

I personally am not a big believer in the categories of psychopaths. I think people's minds work too independently from one another, and experiences shape our minds too much that people can't be drawn down to the same box so simplistically.