Fake Personals Discussion.

[Bape]

Originally Posted by Aggo

Uh, everyone knows that Bape is the premier member of our crew.

BIG FAX

[Bape]

Originally Posted by Aggo

Uh, everyone knows that Bape is the premier member of our crew.

BIG FAX

[Seul]

Fake personals should be pointed out by the person who the fake personal is about.

[Seul]

Fake personals should be pointed out by the person who the fake personal is about.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Subreal

So.. I can lie and say that you were in a crew and claim your crew lost Illmania and you aren't allowed to expo and simply say that it's not true or you get banned?

I was answering the question about whether fake personals should result in an auto-loss only. The question didn't include what to do if a battler disputes the fake personals in the comments.
Like I told Nicholas in the staff forum, I personally wouldn't have banned you, but we have two facts that need to be respected but seem to be in conflict which we need to figure out how to better resolve from now on.

1) Making comments about an open battle that may influence people who haven't voted IS swaying and shouldn't be allowed.
2) A battler (or anyone) should have a right to dispute lies and inaccuracies that may have been said about them and defend themselves against such accusations.

If the same comments had been posted by anyone else, it wouldn't have been considered swaying because only people who have already voted would be able to see them. But because you are actually one of the battlers on the page, people CAN see your comments before voting, and your comments can "sway."

My conclusion: The notion itself that a comment made by one person can sway another person, betrays a lack of faith in the person who is supposedly swayed. While it may be true that people can be and are sometimes swayed, it is probably wrong to take the approach that people generally can't see comments made by self-interested parties and recognize that for what it is and still come to independent assessments.
I think we should look into relaxing some aspects of our policy against swaying so as to allow for certain things like respecting a battler's right to defend themselves against fake personals. If it's okay for people to lie against you (which it is), it should definitely be okay for you to defend yourself somehow.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Subreal

So.. I can lie and say that you were in a crew and claim your crew lost Illmania and you aren't allowed to expo and simply say that it's not true or you get banned?

I was answering the question about whether fake personals should result in an auto-loss only. The question didn't include what to do if a battler disputes the fake personals in the comments.
Like I told Nicholas in the staff forum, I personally wouldn't have banned you, but we have two facts that need to be respected but seem to be in conflict which we need to figure out how to better resolve from now on.

1) Making comments about an open battle that may influence people who haven't voted IS swaying and shouldn't be allowed.
2) A battler (or anyone) should have a right to dispute lies and inaccuracies that may have been said about them and defend themselves against such accusations.

If the same comments had been posted by anyone else, it wouldn't have been considered swaying because only people who have already voted would be able to see them. But because you are actually one of the battlers on the page, people CAN see your comments before voting, and your comments can "sway."

My conclusion: The notion itself that a comment made by one person can sway another person, betrays a lack of faith in the person who is supposedly swayed. While it may be true that people can be and are sometimes swayed, it is probably wrong to take the approach that people generally can't see comments made by self-interested parties and recognize that for what it is and still come to independent assessments.
I think we should look into relaxing some aspects of our policy against swaying so as to allow for certain things like respecting a battler's right to defend themselves against fake personals. If it's okay for people to lie against you (which it is), it should definitely be okay for you to defend yourself somehow.

[RULE]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

No, fake personals shouldn't result in an auto loss because that would mean we're essentially giving people auto-losses for lying when almost everything that is said in almost every verse is a lie. 99% of the people who spit gun bars and talk about how their ruger will put you in the air have never touched a gun and will never see you in real life to even be able to do that. Even the people who don't spit gun bars but joke about how you used to suck your daddy's cock don't really know shit about your life. It's all lies so we might as well give everyone an auto loss if that's the policy.

Agree with this 100%.

[RULE]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

No, fake personals shouldn't result in an auto loss because that would mean we're essentially giving people auto-losses for lying when almost everything that is said in almost every verse is a lie. 99% of the people who spit gun bars and talk about how their ruger will put you in the air have never touched a gun and will never see you in real life to even be able to do that. Even the people who don't spit gun bars but joke about how you used to suck your daddy's cock don't really know shit about your life. It's all lies so we might as well give everyone an auto loss if that's the policy.

Agree with this 100%.

[Subreal]

Originally Posted by RULE

Agree with this 100%.

But you just said who cares 99% of verses are fake anyways. So you are basically claiming its okay for me to say theres proof of you cheating to win your GC or that you video battled Bnas and lost or something and if you comment in the battle that it's not true then you get banned for swaying.

[Subreal]

Originally Posted by RULE

Agree with this 100%.

But you just said who cares 99% of verses are fake anyways. So you are basically claiming its okay for me to say theres proof of you cheating to win your GC or that you video battled Bnas and lost or something and if you comment in the battle that it's not true then you get banned for swaying.

People seem not to understand personals which is crazy to me. RULE, Pulse, Miles Uzi, a bunch of "vets" actually not understanding what a personal is?

A personal is taking something personal to the opponent and using it. It can't be changed or dropped as an open. Nameplay is sort of border line, but it has its own sub category so let's forget that for now.

If I spit a numerology bar on Pulse, specifically stating his relevance to it, that's a personal. If I spit the same bar on Rant, claiming he's massive no numerology and posts loads of threads about it, it doesn't make sense. He doesnt. It's not open for discussion, he simpy doesn't.

If I spit a bar about how RULE hs never won a tournament, that doesn't make sense. He has. It's a lie.

Just like in this situation. Its not like saying you fucked someone's girl. It doesn't even have to be factual information, just not completely made up. You can't say "Rai's in Eptiome Of Thugs?" and diss him for crewing with Lizman. He's not in that crew. We know this. It's a fact.

People seem not to understand personals which is crazy to me. RULE, Pulse, Miles Uzi, a bunch of "vets" actually not understanding what a personal is?

A personal is taking something personal to the opponent and using it. It can't be changed or dropped as an open. Nameplay is sort of border line, but it has its own sub category so let's forget that for now.

If I spit a numerology bar on Pulse, specifically stating his relevance to it, that's a personal. If I spit the same bar on Rant, claiming he's massive no numerology and posts loads of threads about it, it doesn't make sense. He doesnt. It's not open for discussion, he simpy doesn't.

If I spit a bar about how RULE hs never won a tournament, that doesn't make sense. He has. It's a lie.

Just like in this situation. Its not like saying you fucked someone's girl. It doesn't even have to be factual information, just not completely made up. You can't say "Rai's in Eptiome Of Thugs?" and diss him for crewing with Lizman. He's not in that crew. We know this. It's a fact.

[Miles Uzi]

How is any of this even relevant when you can't see the comments until you vote? or at least I cant.

[Miles Uzi]

How is any of this even relevant when you can't see the comments until you vote? or at least I cant.

[RULE]

Fake personals are garbage no doubt about it, but an auto-loss? Thats a slippery slope.

I think a comment explaining should be allowed tho.

[RULE]

Fake personals are garbage no doubt about it, but an auto-loss? Thats a slippery slope.

I think a comment explaining should be allowed tho.

I'm with you here eth. It's pretty baffling to me.

I'm with you here eth. It's pretty baffling to me.

[RULE]

Originally Posted by Subreal

But you just said who cares 99% of verses are fake anyways. So you are basically claiming its okay for me to say theres proof of you cheating to win your GC or that you video battled Bnas and lost or something and if you comment in the battle that it's not true then you get banned for swaying.

Never said or agreed that u should of been banned or that the comment should of been deleted.

[RULE]

Originally Posted by Subreal

But you just said who cares 99% of verses are fake anyways. So you are basically claiming its okay for me to say theres proof of you cheating to win your GC or that you video battled Bnas and lost or something and if you comment in the battle that it's not true then you get banned for swaying.

Never said or agreed that u should of been banned or that the comment should of been deleted.