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02-20-2020, 08:38 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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Open to ideas to fix voting, it's been a challenge for over a decade. Some ideas:
Double blind battles, you can't see the participants only their verses until you vote. So basically you're voting on the content only, might not work well for audio where you could recognize the person more easily than text..
Forced voting, you can't choose what battles to vote on, the system automatically chooses for you. You can view/listen to any battle, but the system would choose if you're allowed to vote or not randomly. You could see a page with all the battles you're allowed to vote on.
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02-20-2020, 08:38 PM
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#71
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The Boss
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 41 Thread(s)
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Open to ideas to fix voting, it's been a challenge for over a decade. Some ideas:
Double blind battles, you can't see the participants only their verses until you vote. So basically you're voting on the content only, might not work well for audio where you could recognize the person more easily than text..
Forced voting, you can't choose what battles to vote on, the system automatically chooses for you. You can view/listen to any battle, but the system would choose if you're allowed to vote or not randomly. You could see a page with all the battles you're allowed to vote on.
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02-20-2020, 08:46 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,789
Mentioned: 2433 Post(s)
Tagged: 104 Thread(s)
Ranked Audio Record 31 Won / 3 Lost
Ranked Text Record 437 Won / 75 Lost
Exclusive Text Record 6 Won / 4 Lost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Open to ideas to fix voting, it's been a challenge for over a decade. Some ideas:
Double blind battles, you can't see the participants only their verses until you vote. So basically you're voting on the content only, might not work well for audio where you could recognize the person more easily than text..
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Good idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Forced voting, you can't choose what battles to vote on, the system automatically chooses for you. You can view/listen to any battle, but the system would choose if you're allowed to vote or not randomly. You could see a page with all the battles you're allowed to vote on.
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This sounds good in theory though what if a forum run tourney battle needs votes but a few people can't vote on those battles due to this 'random battle to vote on' selection. Could cause a few issues in other areas too.
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02-20-2020, 08:46 PM
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#72
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Ranked Audio Record 31 Won / 3 Lost
Ranked Text Record 437 Won / 75 Lost
Exclusive Text Record 6 Won / 4 Lost
Join Date: Nov 2007
Voted:
468
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Posts: 9,789
Mentioned: 2433 Post(s)
Tagged: 104 Thread(s)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Open to ideas to fix voting, it's been a challenge for over a decade. Some ideas:
Double blind battles, you can't see the participants only their verses until you vote. So basically you're voting on the content only, might not work well for audio where you could recognize the person more easily than text..
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Good idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Forced voting, you can't choose what battles to vote on, the system automatically chooses for you. You can view/listen to any battle, but the system would choose if you're allowed to vote or not randomly. You could see a page with all the battles you're allowed to vote on.
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This sounds good in theory though what if a forum run tourney battle needs votes but a few people can't vote on those battles due to this 'random battle to vote on' selection. Could cause a few issues in other areas too.
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02-20-2020, 09:10 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,775
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Tagged: 23 Thread(s)
4 1828
Ranked Text Record 104 Won / 19 Lost
Exclusive Text Record 6 Won / 1 Lost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Open to ideas to fix voting, it's been a challenge for over a decade. Some ideas:
Double blind battles, you can't see the participants only their verses until you vote. So basically you're voting on the content only, might not work well for audio where you could recognize the person more easily than text..
Forced voting, you can't choose what battles to vote on, the system automatically chooses for you. You can view/listen to any battle, but the system would choose if you're allowed to vote or not randomly. You could see a page with all the battles you're allowed to vote on.
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I could see both of these hurting voting. If you don’t know the participants and/or can’t control which battles you decide to vote on, it will lessen the likelihood that folks will check it out after a while. There’s a lot more rough than diamonds and if folks keep ending up not being able to vote for battles they may have interest in or look forward to, I can see it being more harm than good.
A variation on the double blind would be to know the participants but not know whose verse was whose until after you vote. If you’re looking to up voter turnout, make tournaments cost credits to enter. Say 15-20
Battles worth of credits. That way if you want to enter a tourney, which is what usually draws people out the woodwork, you have to vote every other day for a month at minimum to get into it.
__________________
Remembering RULE Please join us in loving celebration of the memory of an accomplished and amazing life at: The Puncher's Funeral
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02-20-2020, 09:10 PM
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#73
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4 1828
Ranked Text Record 104 Won / 19 Lost
Exclusive Text Record 6 Won / 1 Lost
Join Date: Mar 2014
Voted:
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Posts: 1,775
Mentioned: 698 Post(s)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Open to ideas to fix voting, it's been a challenge for over a decade. Some ideas:
Double blind battles, you can't see the participants only their verses until you vote. So basically you're voting on the content only, might not work well for audio where you could recognize the person more easily than text..
Forced voting, you can't choose what battles to vote on, the system automatically chooses for you. You can view/listen to any battle, but the system would choose if you're allowed to vote or not randomly. You could see a page with all the battles you're allowed to vote on.
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I could see both of these hurting voting. If you don’t know the participants and/or can’t control which battles you decide to vote on, it will lessen the likelihood that folks will check it out after a while. There’s a lot more rough than diamonds and if folks keep ending up not being able to vote for battles they may have interest in or look forward to, I can see it being more harm than good.
A variation on the double blind would be to know the participants but not know whose verse was whose until after you vote. If you’re looking to up voter turnout, make tournaments cost credits to enter. Say 15-20
Battles worth of credits. That way if you want to enter a tourney, which is what usually draws people out the woodwork, you have to vote every other day for a month at minimum to get into it.
__________________
Remembering RULE Please join us in loving celebration of the memory of an accomplished and amazing life at: The Puncher's Funeral
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02-20-2020, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esso
I could see both of these hurting voting. If you don’t know the participants and/or can’t control which battles you decide to vote on, it will lessen the likelihood that folks will check it out after a while. There’s a lot more rough than diamonds and if folks keep ending up not being able to vote for battles they may have interest in or look forward to, I can see it being more harm than good.
A variation on the double blind would be to know the participants but not know whose verse was whose until after you vote. If you’re looking to up voter turnout, make tournaments cost credits to enter. Say 15-20
Battles worth of credits. That way if you want to enter a tourney, which is what usually draws people out the woodwork, you have to vote every other day for a month at minimum to get into it.
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The problem with not knowing who’s verse was who’s is that it will be easy to decipher once personals are thrown in to the mix
I still personally think tournaments should have a credit requirement for entry and you can only gain credits via voting (I.e. 250 credits to enter a secondary tournament, 350 to enter a GC)
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02-20-2020, 09:19 PM
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#74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esso
I could see both of these hurting voting. If you don’t know the participants and/or can’t control which battles you decide to vote on, it will lessen the likelihood that folks will check it out after a while. There’s a lot more rough than diamonds and if folks keep ending up not being able to vote for battles they may have interest in or look forward to, I can see it being more harm than good.
A variation on the double blind would be to know the participants but not know whose verse was whose until after you vote. If you’re looking to up voter turnout, make tournaments cost credits to enter. Say 15-20
Battles worth of credits. That way if you want to enter a tourney, which is what usually draws people out the woodwork, you have to vote every other day for a month at minimum to get into it.
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The problem with not knowing who’s verse was who’s is that it will be easy to decipher once personals are thrown in to the mix
I still personally think tournaments should have a credit requirement for entry and you can only gain credits via voting (I.e. 250 credits to enter a secondary tournament, 350 to enter a GC)
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02-20-2020, 10:14 PM
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i used to be a huge advocate for double blind voting or w/e but i've learned it can't be done. and that's because when two battlers are setting up a battle they'll write bars against each other, personals, and through this, we'd know who the battlers were.
also, for even sniping, the sniper would use name flips, and would most likely give away the person who had posted the blind w/o revealing himself, which gives the sniper an even larger advantage.
forced voting is cool and all, but it could push users away, like, they might just stop logging in.
improving voting means we work on educating our userbase, and that means, we need to focus on the human element of this problem, which i know you're not a fan of. but in all honesty, there'll be no way to automate a good vote.
also, for low skill battler complaining, this should just be ignored. i don't want to make them feel ignored, or come off as an elitist, but when gordan ramsey says your city diner is shit, and you say he's an idiot, i mean, the situation is clear. it's the same here.
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02-20-2020, 10:14 PM
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#75
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i used to be a huge advocate for double blind voting or w/e but i've learned it can't be done. and that's because when two battlers are setting up a battle they'll write bars against each other, personals, and through this, we'd know who the battlers were.
also, for even sniping, the sniper would use name flips, and would most likely give away the person who had posted the blind w/o revealing himself, which gives the sniper an even larger advantage.
forced voting is cool and all, but it could push users away, like, they might just stop logging in.
improving voting means we work on educating our userbase, and that means, we need to focus on the human element of this problem, which i know you're not a fan of. but in all honesty, there'll be no way to automate a good vote.
also, for low skill battler complaining, this should just be ignored. i don't want to make them feel ignored, or come off as an elitist, but when gordan ramsey says your city diner is shit, and you say he's an idiot, i mean, the situation is clear. it's the same here.
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02-20-2020, 10:39 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,392
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 16 Thread(s)
Ranked Audio Record 2 Won / 1 Lost
Ranked Text Record 119 Won / 50 Lost
Exclusive Text Record 2 Won / 0 Lost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Open to ideas to fix voting, it's been a challenge for over a decade. Some ideas:
Double blind battles, you can't see the participants only their verses until you vote. So basically you're voting on the content only, might not work well for audio where you could recognize the person more easily than text..
Forced voting, you can't choose what battles to vote on, the system automatically chooses for you. You can view/listen to any battle, but the system would choose if you're allowed to vote or not randomly. You could see a page with all the battles you're allowed to vote on.
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I got a problem with he forced voing bit coz i refrain from voting on battle between inactive voters. but the double blind idea should be implemented like right away along with a lil addition that even the battlers cannot see the name of the guys who voted (but can see the comments and votes) till the battle is over.
There is one issue tho, there are generally queries about a few of the bars of that voters may need as expos so how do they communicate that to the person?
__________________
*CUM SHOTS IN THE AIR*
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02-20-2020, 10:39 PM
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#76
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Ranked Audio Record 2 Won / 1 Lost
Ranked Text Record 119 Won / 50 Lost
Exclusive Text Record 2 Won / 0 Lost
Join Date: Mar 2019
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Tagged: 16 Thread(s)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Open to ideas to fix voting, it's been a challenge for over a decade. Some ideas:
Double blind battles, you can't see the participants only their verses until you vote. So basically you're voting on the content only, might not work well for audio where you could recognize the person more easily than text..
Forced voting, you can't choose what battles to vote on, the system automatically chooses for you. You can view/listen to any battle, but the system would choose if you're allowed to vote or not randomly. You could see a page with all the battles you're allowed to vote on.
|
I got a problem with he forced voing bit coz i refrain from voting on battle between inactive voters. but the double blind idea should be implemented like right away along with a lil addition that even the battlers cannot see the name of the guys who voted (but can see the comments and votes) till the battle is over.
There is one issue tho, there are generally queries about a few of the bars of that voters may need as expos so how do they communicate that to the person?
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*CUM SHOTS IN THE AIR*
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02-20-2020, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saaxxx Baba
I got a problem with he forced voing bit coz i refrain from voting on battle between inactive voters. but the double blind idea should be implemented like right away along with a lil addition that even the battlers cannot see the name of the guys who voted (but can see the comments and votes) till the battle is over.
There is one issue tho, there are generally queries about a few of the bars of that voters may need as expos so how do they communicate that to the person?
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and the issue of personals and many more. blind battling would be cool for a tournament idea, but not applicable for a site wide commencement
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02-20-2020, 11:14 PM
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#77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saaxxx Baba
I got a problem with he forced voing bit coz i refrain from voting on battle between inactive voters. but the double blind idea should be implemented like right away along with a lil addition that even the battlers cannot see the name of the guys who voted (but can see the comments and votes) till the battle is over.
There is one issue tho, there are generally queries about a few of the bars of that voters may need as expos so how do they communicate that to the person?
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and the issue of personals and many more. blind battling would be cool for a tournament idea, but not applicable for a site wide commencement
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02-20-2020, 11:25 PM
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Scheme Champion Concept Champion Rookie Champion One Bar Champion Tag Team Champion
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,200
Mentioned: 580 Post(s)
Tagged: 36 Thread(s)
Ranked Audio Record 4 Won / 0 Lost
Ranked Text Record 72 Won / 16 Lost
Exclusive Text Record 3 Won / 1 Lost
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General thoughts: I just don't see the blind voting working on implementation. That means 0 personal bars or name flips. Plus, it's still pretty easy to decipher who's who based on their style. ( Most can easily tell a Saiyan verse from a Shodan verse from a RULE verse from a etc.). To me, it just doesn't make sense.
Plus, the only reason this type of system would be needed in the first place would be if people were A) buddy voting - suppose this is happening, someone could theoretically still tell their buddies which verse they were anyway, or B) voting for names - which, I'll admit might sometimes come into play but in general I really think if you dug into it, this truly influences the outcomes of a microscopic % of battles, if any. So in that case, changing to blind voting with that tiny pro at the expense of all the cons listed above just doesn't make sense.
Forced voting, just nah man. It's just not a good idea. People already don't vote enough, now we want to restrict which battles they can and can't vote on? Just can't imagine any way that increases voting.
Here's a suggestion that doesn't really radically effect the voting ecosystem on LB. Go back to how it was, make credits worth a damn. Make it cost credits to battle, and a new addition: make it cost credits to enter tournaments, make it cost credits to drop a song, whatever. And make the only way to get credits voting. The way it was before made perfect sense. You got 1 credit per vote and needed 3 credits to battle, so for every 1 of your own battles, you had voted on 3 others, meaning you had a net positive effect on the site in terms of battles vs votes. I know you changed it before because there was a "lack of battles" but that has nothing to really do with the cost of battles, that's just the activity of the site. It's a battle rap site, people are here to battle rap. (Most of us, anyway).
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02-20-2020, 11:25 PM
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#78
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Scheme Champion Concept Champion Rookie Champion One Bar Champion Tag Team Champion
Ranked Audio Record 4 Won / 0 Lost
Ranked Text Record 72 Won / 16 Lost
Exclusive Text Record 3 Won / 1 Lost
Join Date: May 2018
Voted:
241
audio / 1193
text
Posts: 1,200
Mentioned: 580 Post(s)
Tagged: 36 Thread(s)
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General thoughts: I just don't see the blind voting working on implementation. That means 0 personal bars or name flips. Plus, it's still pretty easy to decipher who's who based on their style. ( Most can easily tell a Saiyan verse from a Shodan verse from a RULE verse from a etc.). To me, it just doesn't make sense.
Plus, the only reason this type of system would be needed in the first place would be if people were A) buddy voting - suppose this is happening, someone could theoretically still tell their buddies which verse they were anyway, or B) voting for names - which, I'll admit might sometimes come into play but in general I really think if you dug into it, this truly influences the outcomes of a microscopic % of battles, if any. So in that case, changing to blind voting with that tiny pro at the expense of all the cons listed above just doesn't make sense.
Forced voting, just nah man. It's just not a good idea. People already don't vote enough, now we want to restrict which battles they can and can't vote on? Just can't imagine any way that increases voting.
Here's a suggestion that doesn't really radically effect the voting ecosystem on LB. Go back to how it was, make credits worth a damn. Make it cost credits to battle, and a new addition: make it cost credits to enter tournaments, make it cost credits to drop a song, whatever. And make the only way to get credits voting. The way it was before made perfect sense. You got 1 credit per vote and needed 3 credits to battle, so for every 1 of your own battles, you had voted on 3 others, meaning you had a net positive effect on the site in terms of battles vs votes. I know you changed it before because there was a "lack of battles" but that has nothing to really do with the cost of battles, that's just the activity of the site. It's a battle rap site, people are here to battle rap. (Most of us, anyway).
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02-20-2020, 11:42 PM
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Also, do a hard reset on credits each month to ensure people don’t just sit on a shit ton of credits and contribute nothing.
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02-20-2020, 11:42 PM
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#79
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Also, do a hard reset on credits each month to ensure people don’t just sit on a shit ton of credits and contribute nothing.
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02-21-2020, 12:38 AM
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i think thse are good ideas too, in fact when edge first came up with that buy in tournament idea i thought it was great, but honestly people could give a shit about credits. our userbase WILL NOTT change so we cant fix things to work for what we have
we have to think of the future when we think of ideas.
(side note edges buy in w/ credits for tounaments is still a great idea for now)
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02-21-2020, 12:38 AM
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#80
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i think thse are good ideas too, in fact when edge first came up with that buy in tournament idea i thought it was great, but honestly people could give a shit about credits. our userbase WILL NOTT change so we cant fix things to work for what we have
we have to think of the future when we think of ideas.
(side note edges buy in w/ credits for tounaments is still a great idea for now)
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