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08-24-2014, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obey
A big reason for me to believe in creation is purpose, everything has one.
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Why? Why does something have to have a purpose? The answer is that there is none, because nothing has to have a purpose. The idea that everything has (or has to have) a purpose is nothing more than a human abstraction created because we can't (or won't) realize that the universe, fundamentally, doesn't give one shit about us or what we care about. We're just a certain configuration of matter and energy that wants to generalize, simplify, and rationalize in a way that makes us feel happy.
Sorry to burst your bubble, Obey, but reality simply doesn't work like that.
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08-24-2014, 11:21 PM
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#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obey
A big reason for me to believe in creation is purpose, everything has one.
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Why? Why does something have to have a purpose? The answer is that there is none, because nothing has to have a purpose. The idea that everything has (or has to have) a purpose is nothing more than a human abstraction created because we can't (or won't) realize that the universe, fundamentally, doesn't give one shit about us or what we care about. We're just a certain configuration of matter and energy that wants to generalize, simplify, and rationalize in a way that makes us feel happy.
Sorry to burst your bubble, Obey, but reality simply doesn't work like that.
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08-24-2014, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Dash
Then where did God come from?...
You could say God created himself because that is the nature of God, but you could get around that conclusion if you presume that the universe (or multiverse, if we happen to live inside a black hole, as has been seriously proposed) has always been here and therefore has this property as well. Indeed, one could say that reality IS God - which makes even more sense if we happen to live inside a simulation or nested simulations, though you'd still have to wonder how the simulation-creator(s) got here. Nothing created it because it (or, at the very least, something) has always existed. This may seem like too much to swallow, but it's the closest thing to sensible I can think of.
Personally, I gave up trying to explain it a long time ago. Pretty much everything you can say about it is self-contradictory or nonsensical, so why bother? I just accept that it's here and don't accept explanations which don't make sense.
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This reminds me of the S3 Plan from MGS2 for some reason.
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08-24-2014, 11:23 PM
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#12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Dash
Then where did God come from?...
You could say God created himself because that is the nature of God, but you could get around that conclusion if you presume that the universe (or multiverse, if we happen to live inside a black hole, as has been seriously proposed) has always been here and therefore has this property as well. Indeed, one could say that reality IS God - which makes even more sense if we happen to live inside a simulation or nested simulations, though you'd still have to wonder how the simulation-creator(s) got here. Nothing created it because it (or, at the very least, something) has always existed. This may seem like too much to swallow, but it's the closest thing to sensible I can think of.
Personally, I gave up trying to explain it a long time ago. Pretty much everything you can say about it is self-contradictory or nonsensical, so why bother? I just accept that it's here and don't accept explanations which don't make sense.
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This reminds me of the S3 Plan from MGS2 for some reason.
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08-24-2014, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Dash
Why? Why does something have to have a purpose? The answer is that there is none, because nothing has to have a purpose. The idea that everything has (or has to have) a purpose is nothing more than a human abstraction created because we can't (or won't) realize that the universe, fundamentally, doesn't give one shit about us or what we care about. We're just a certain configuration of matter and energy that wants to generalize, simplify, and rationalize in a way that makes us feel happy.
Sorry to burst your bubble, Obey, but reality simply doesn't work like that.
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Things are put here for a reason, my man. Water, oxygen, food that grows from this earth, reproductive organs, etc.. that ALL has a purpose. We all got our beliefs, to me it's all too coincidentally perfect for me to think it just happened.
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08-24-2014, 11:27 PM
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#13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Dash
Why? Why does something have to have a purpose? The answer is that there is none, because nothing has to have a purpose. The idea that everything has (or has to have) a purpose is nothing more than a human abstraction created because we can't (or won't) realize that the universe, fundamentally, doesn't give one shit about us or what we care about. We're just a certain configuration of matter and energy that wants to generalize, simplify, and rationalize in a way that makes us feel happy.
Sorry to burst your bubble, Obey, but reality simply doesn't work like that.
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Things are put here for a reason, my man. Water, oxygen, food that grows from this earth, reproductive organs, etc.. that ALL has a purpose. We all got our beliefs, to me it's all too coincidentally perfect for me to think it just happened.
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08-24-2014, 11:29 PM
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Rainbow Dash did NOT just give possibility to simulation theory...
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08-24-2014, 11:29 PM
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#14
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Rainbow Dash did NOT just give possibility to simulation theory...
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08-24-2014, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obey
Things are put here for a reason, my man. Water, oxygen, food that grows from this earth, reproductive organs, etc.. that ALL has a purpose. We all got our beliefs, to me it's all too coincidentally perfect for me to think it just happened.
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This argument has a lot of flaws.
First off, it's not like every one of these things occurred independently. Instead, you would have had a cause (life forming), followed by an effect (evolution). Over time, the chain of cause and effect is going to lead to all those things you mentioned occurring. Also, as for "why the Earth is so perfect for life," that's itself a confusion of cause and effect. The Earth didn't adapt to us; rather, we adapted to it. If we had come from a planet with a temperature of 200 degrees and breathed vaporized mercury instead of oxygen, we would be talking about how coincidental and amazing it was that we, a species that thrives in those conditions, happened to be here.
Second, the anthropic principle does not, in any way, require a universe driven by God or even a particular purpose. All that is required is that the universe be suitable for life of our variety to pop up. Consider just how large the universe is. Our galactic supercluster, which is already unfathomably huge, is just a teensy-tiny speck in the observable universe - and the observable universe is a small fraction of the entire universe! In addition, the 10^500 universes potentially arising from string vacua, as well as the googolplexes of universes splitting off from each event if Everett's interpretation is right (which it may or may not be), mean that life not only can arise, it almost certainly will.
---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by EtH
Rainbow Dash did NOT just give possibility to simulation theory...
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Oh no! I said something you dislike! Oh dear. I'll write up a public apology and deliver it as soon as possible. *hugs*
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08-24-2014, 11:37 PM
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#15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obey
Things are put here for a reason, my man. Water, oxygen, food that grows from this earth, reproductive organs, etc.. that ALL has a purpose. We all got our beliefs, to me it's all too coincidentally perfect for me to think it just happened.
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This argument has a lot of flaws.
First off, it's not like every one of these things occurred independently. Instead, you would have had a cause (life forming), followed by an effect (evolution). Over time, the chain of cause and effect is going to lead to all those things you mentioned occurring. Also, as for "why the Earth is so perfect for life," that's itself a confusion of cause and effect. The Earth didn't adapt to us; rather, we adapted to it. If we had come from a planet with a temperature of 200 degrees and breathed vaporized mercury instead of oxygen, we would be talking about how coincidental and amazing it was that we, a species that thrives in those conditions, happened to be here.
Second, the anthropic principle does not, in any way, require a universe driven by God or even a particular purpose. All that is required is that the universe be suitable for life of our variety to pop up. Consider just how large the universe is. Our galactic supercluster, which is already unfathomably huge, is just a teensy-tiny speck in the observable universe - and the observable universe is a small fraction of the entire universe! In addition, the 10^500 universes potentially arising from string vacua, as well as the googolplexes of universes splitting off from each event if Everett's interpretation is right (which it may or may not be), mean that life not only can arise, it almost certainly will.
---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by EtH
Rainbow Dash did NOT just give possibility to simulation theory...
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Oh no! I said something you dislike! Oh dear. I'll write up a public apology and deliver it as soon as possible. *hugs*
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08-24-2014, 11:47 PM
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But...it's simulation theory man. Thats right there with reptilian theory.
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08-24-2014, 11:47 PM
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#16
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But...it's simulation theory man. Thats right there with reptilian theory.
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08-24-2014, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtH
But...it's simulation theory man. Thats right there with reptilian theory.
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Your point?
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08-24-2014, 11:54 PM
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#17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtH
But...it's simulation theory man. Thats right there with reptilian theory.
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Your point?
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08-24-2014, 11:56 PM
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Believing that Obama is actually George Bush in disguise > reptilian theory.
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08-24-2014, 11:56 PM
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#18
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Believing that Obama is actually George Bush in disguise > reptilian theory.
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08-25-2014, 12:31 AM
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The meaning of life is for each individual being or living thing to play it's own unique roll on this earth. Although humans are now deluded by the notion that we all have to 'work' in order to survive and although most of us do pay for the necessary things we need in order to survive (food, clothing, shelter etc), despite the exchange of our hard earned money for said necessities, we are still basically given everything to us, when the real purpose we have here is to farm those things ourselves thus bringing a deep inner happiness and real sense of achievement.
Last edited by SoupErb; 08-25-2014 at 12:33 AM.
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08-25-2014, 12:31 AM
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#19
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The meaning of life is for each individual being or living thing to play it's own unique roll on this earth. Although humans are now deluded by the notion that we all have to 'work' in order to survive and although most of us do pay for the necessary things we need in order to survive (food, clothing, shelter etc), despite the exchange of our hard earned money for said necessities, we are still basically given everything to us, when the real purpose we have here is to farm those things ourselves thus bringing a deep inner happiness and real sense of achievement.
Last edited by SoupErb; 08-25-2014 at 12:33 AM.
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08-25-2014, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGuy
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You're the guy that believes Alex Jones is a genius, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BENSON THA GREAT
GOD EXISTS....SORRY FELLAZ...SORRY FOR UR SOULS
---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 PM ----------
THE DEVIL COULDNT OF WROTE THAT UP MORE PERFECT. GOOD JOB
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Should I even dignify this with a response, or?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obey
Something created us, something created the universe. Is it God, maybe. But something can't spawn from nothing.
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Exactly what Dash said, if something cannot spawn from nothing then why is God exempt from that? And if he is actually exempt from that, that means that things CAN indeed be exempt from this rule that something can't spawn from nothing. And if that rule has exemptions, it's no longer valid. We simpy don't know enough about the universe yet to understand where we come from, but simply saying "We HAD to have been created" isn't logical at all. No one knows, so assuming something based upon no logical thought processes is pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obey
A big reason for me to believe in creation is purpose, everything has one.
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Even if this was the case, which although nothing provides any shred of evidence towards, who's to say that that then proves the existence of creation? Simply having a purpose doesn't mean a God created us. According to that premise our purpose could indeed just be to reproduce and die. My original post says everything needed about this. Our brains create an illusion of self which in turn creates a need for "purpose" when I sincerely doubt you can provide any sort of proof as to how we humans have an inherent purpose in life other than to reproduce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupErb
The meaning of life is for each individual being or living thing to play it's own unique roll on this earth. Although humans are now deluded by the notion that we all have to 'work' in order to survive and although most of us do pay for the necessary things we need in order to survive (food, clothing, shelter etc), despite the exchange of our hard earned money for said necessities, we are still basically given everything to us, when the real purpose we have here is to farm those things ourselves thus bringing a deep inner happiness and real sense of achievement.
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Why be so arrogant as to say that we have a unique role on earth just from being born? I've never understood this premise that we are all special little snowflakes with destiny and missions in life. I understand it's cool to think that, but why would we? We are animals. You don't look at a snake or a gnat and say the same things you would about a humans purpose or destiny. That's, once again, because we've created this illusion of "self".
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08-25-2014, 10:32 AM
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#20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGuy
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You're the guy that believes Alex Jones is a genius, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BENSON THA GREAT
GOD EXISTS....SORRY FELLAZ...SORRY FOR UR SOULS
---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 PM ----------
THE DEVIL COULDNT OF WROTE THAT UP MORE PERFECT. GOOD JOB
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Should I even dignify this with a response, or?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obey
Something created us, something created the universe. Is it God, maybe. But something can't spawn from nothing.
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Exactly what Dash said, if something cannot spawn from nothing then why is God exempt from that? And if he is actually exempt from that, that means that things CAN indeed be exempt from this rule that something can't spawn from nothing. And if that rule has exemptions, it's no longer valid. We simpy don't know enough about the universe yet to understand where we come from, but simply saying "We HAD to have been created" isn't logical at all. No one knows, so assuming something based upon no logical thought processes is pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obey
A big reason for me to believe in creation is purpose, everything has one.
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Even if this was the case, which although nothing provides any shred of evidence towards, who's to say that that then proves the existence of creation? Simply having a purpose doesn't mean a God created us. According to that premise our purpose could indeed just be to reproduce and die. My original post says everything needed about this. Our brains create an illusion of self which in turn creates a need for "purpose" when I sincerely doubt you can provide any sort of proof as to how we humans have an inherent purpose in life other than to reproduce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupErb
The meaning of life is for each individual being or living thing to play it's own unique roll on this earth. Although humans are now deluded by the notion that we all have to 'work' in order to survive and although most of us do pay for the necessary things we need in order to survive (food, clothing, shelter etc), despite the exchange of our hard earned money for said necessities, we are still basically given everything to us, when the real purpose we have here is to farm those things ourselves thus bringing a deep inner happiness and real sense of achievement.
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Why be so arrogant as to say that we have a unique role on earth just from being born? I've never understood this premise that we are all special little snowflakes with destiny and missions in life. I understand it's cool to think that, but why would we? We are animals. You don't look at a snake or a gnat and say the same things you would about a humans purpose or destiny. That's, once again, because we've created this illusion of "self".
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