Should Nicholas be demodded?

[Louie Dawgs]

I feel like this site has become progressively whiter over the years. IDK what the ethnicities of all the individuals on here are, but from what I'm aware of, it's like 90% white guys.

[Louie Dawgs]

I feel like this site has become progressively whiter over the years. IDK what the ethnicities of all the individuals on here are, but from what I'm aware of, it's like 90% white guys.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

I'm not sure if he ever apologized publicly, but as far as I can tell, he's never actually denied what he did.

https://www.letsbeef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161906

Check out the first page of this thread. All of his posts are implicit denials.

Originally Posted by Louie Dawgs

I feel like this site has become progressively whiter over the years. IDK what the ethnicities of all the individuals on here are, but from what I'm aware of, it's like 90% white guys.

I'm really more of a pinkish-orange tan.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

I'm not sure if he ever apologized publicly, but as far as I can tell, he's never actually denied what he did.

https://www.letsbeef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161906

Check out the first page of this thread. All of his posts are implicit denials.

Originally Posted by Louie Dawgs

I feel like this site has become progressively whiter over the years. IDK what the ethnicities of all the individuals on here are, but from what I'm aware of, it's like 90% white guys.

I'm really more of a pinkish-orange tan.

[Subreal]

He never actually released personal information about site users. Rant is reaching cuz he's a sore loser.

[Subreal]

He never actually released personal information about site users. Rant is reaching cuz he's a sore loser.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

You made 6 points in your OP and I'll weigh in on each one separately.

1) Yes, his use of oronyms as written verbatim on a website was plagiarism. I agreed it was plagiarism but disagreed that it was "biting" and explained what I see as a distinction between the two. Either way, both plagiarism and biting are against the site rules. Should he be demodded for it? When this came to light, he apologized to the staff and offered to step down. I'm not sure if he ever apologized publicly, but as far as I can tell, he's never actually denied what he did. Being that he showed remorse and considering that he's probably the most contributing active mod (LBT, LBA, Hall of Fame, LB Awards, etc..), I was against him stepping down, and I still feel the same way, especially since this doesn't represent a pattern. An auto-win was given to his opponent on that battle, and I think that is how staff chose to resolve it.

2) We've all made comments that we later edited or deleted. The fact that he even went back to edit it shows he actually has regard for the site rules and is being careful not to sway. He made the edit the same day the comment was made. I don't see how this is a big deal, or am I missing something?

3) Where did he release personal information?

4) I've only heard your side of this so far, and from what I gather, he removed you from the LBT card because you joked that you would no-show? I would prefer to hear Nick's account of events before making judgment. If it occurred the way you've described, I agree that the participants should've been informed first and that would've been a more considerate way to handle things. I don't know if it merits being demodded though.

5) If this is as you described, then yes, I agree and I think it is highly hypocritical. But once again, I'd have to hear Nick's side of the story. It's possible that he relieved Lock of the LBT/LBA for reasons other than that he was both running and participating in it.

6) Yes, he used a racial slur but seemed to be parodying his opponent rather than conveying it himself. This may still offend some people. Personally I don't see it as a big deal.

Responding to bolded points.

1.) As pointed out by Shodan, Nicholas explicitly denied that he had used these oronyms from the site. And may never have actually acknowledged any sort of plagiarism. Or did so after the initial denial.

2.) Even if he is the most active mod, why should activity outweigh a pattern of bad behavior? Additionally, why should the weight of all of those activities fall onto the role of a single mod? Aren't these highlighted contributions things that could be relegated to the other members of the staff respectively? And if they won't do it, why are they still modded? Activity is great. But, being active, while also showing a clearly established pattern of unethical behavior isn't so great. I think it's important to staff members that can balance both activity and a suitable record of modship. If there are 6 things, all of which are frowned upon by site standards that a mod has done over the course of a short period of time, it's certainly time to call into question whether their suited for a position. A person can't be given the benefit of the doubt in every single instance.

3.) Would he have edited the comment, had I not pointed out to him how it was unbecoming? I think it's concerning, that as a mod, who knew the battle was open(having voted on it.), the time was taken to comment in a swaying manner about said battle. As a moderator, it's important not to let personal bias affect your decision making. And this shows that he did just that.

4.) Again, I think a moderator should weigh how his decisions will affect the site. He's a representative of the site, and his actions can either draw in new members, or drive members away. Would those offended by this remark not be driven away by it? And if so, should it have been done, knowing that this could be a potential outcome? If Nicholas were a normal member, this WOULDN'T be an issue. But, he's not. He's a member of staff, and therefore what he does holds more weight in regard to site reputation. Something that using racial slurs openly could easily affect.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

You made 6 points in your OP and I'll weigh in on each one separately.

1) Yes, his use of oronyms as written verbatim on a website was plagiarism. I agreed it was plagiarism but disagreed that it was "biting" and explained what I see as a distinction between the two. Either way, both plagiarism and biting are against the site rules. Should he be demodded for it? When this came to light, he apologized to the staff and offered to step down. I'm not sure if he ever apologized publicly, but as far as I can tell, he's never actually denied what he did. Being that he showed remorse and considering that he's probably the most contributing active mod (LBT, LBA, Hall of Fame, LB Awards, etc..), I was against him stepping down, and I still feel the same way, especially since this doesn't represent a pattern. An auto-win was given to his opponent on that battle, and I think that is how staff chose to resolve it.

2) We've all made comments that we later edited or deleted. The fact that he even went back to edit it shows he actually has regard for the site rules and is being careful not to sway. He made the edit the same day the comment was made. I don't see how this is a big deal, or am I missing something?

3) Where did he release personal information?

4) I've only heard your side of this so far, and from what I gather, he removed you from the LBT card because you joked that you would no-show? I would prefer to hear Nick's account of events before making judgment. If it occurred the way you've described, I agree that the participants should've been informed first and that would've been a more considerate way to handle things. I don't know if it merits being demodded though.

5) If this is as you described, then yes, I agree and I think it is highly hypocritical. But once again, I'd have to hear Nick's side of the story. It's possible that he relieved Lock of the LBT/LBA for reasons other than that he was both running and participating in it.

6) Yes, he used a racial slur but seemed to be parodying his opponent rather than conveying it himself. This may still offend some people. Personally I don't see it as a big deal.

Responding to bolded points.

1.) As pointed out by Shodan, Nicholas explicitly denied that he had used these oronyms from the site. And may never have actually acknowledged any sort of plagiarism. Or did so after the initial denial.

2.) Even if he is the most active mod, why should activity outweigh a pattern of bad behavior? Additionally, why should the weight of all of those activities fall onto the role of a single mod? Aren't these highlighted contributions things that could be relegated to the other members of the staff respectively? And if they won't do it, why are they still modded? Activity is great. But, being active, while also showing a clearly established pattern of unethical behavior isn't so great. I think it's important to staff members that can balance both activity and a suitable record of modship. If there are 6 things, all of which are frowned upon by site standards that a mod has done over the course of a short period of time, it's certainly time to call into question whether their suited for a position. A person can't be given the benefit of the doubt in every single instance.

3.) Would he have edited the comment, had I not pointed out to him how it was unbecoming? I think it's concerning, that as a mod, who knew the battle was open(having voted on it.), the time was taken to comment in a swaying manner about said battle. As a moderator, it's important not to let personal bias affect your decision making. And this shows that he did just that.

4.) Again, I think a moderator should weigh how his decisions will affect the site. He's a representative of the site, and his actions can either draw in new members, or drive members away. Would those offended by this remark not be driven away by it? And if so, should it have been done, knowing that this could be a potential outcome? If Nicholas were a normal member, this WOULDN'T be an issue. But, he's not. He's a member of staff, and therefore what he does holds more weight in regard to site reputation. Something that using racial slurs openly could easily affect.

Bump.

Bump.

I read all 6 pages of the post before voting and I believe the site would be better with Nicholas remaining a mod.

I read all 6 pages of the post before voting and I believe the site would be better with Nicholas remaining a mod.

@Nicholas

Can you confirm that you've now given yourself an LBA title shot? That'd be awesome.

@Nicholas

Can you confirm that you've now given yourself an LBA title shot? That'd be awesome.

No confirmation?

No confirmation?

[J u s T C]

Originally Posted by K SERA

Yeah Lowkey..i always Felt like The Mods weren't Really a diverse Group of People,and None of them Represented me or My demographic,Maybe Noble..I'm a Black dude From Ny, who Grew Up in the 90s. I personally would never Invite any of my Friends of Any Color to Come check this site out,Its just Not for us...It sort of seems like ..Letsbeef is a "HipHop" website that doesn't Care about black people.

Being Black is Deeper than Skin color,and The N word isn't Just Reserved for African Americans..It's how those at the Top,View those at The Bottom.

In the rules Plagiarism is Bannable,Racism is Bannable and so Is Voter Fraud.But Racism is allowed.. But it has Limits..and that Limit Might be.. If Staff Likes you.

Wes I know you remember Panther and Cancer I never once tried or even thought of banning them even u used to join in. Not being racist with em but laughing n joking n stirring the pot like you knew it bullshit with no filter and other mods let them get away with much worse than you ever see now. I get it's different and, the history and it's complicated but it's not like we got hundreds of white racists here while the aforementioned got banned on sight. Give n take FoS and lets BH it's internet warriors being internet warriors who're there to be brushed off and laughed at.. I dunno. being a white brit it's easy for me to laugh at the Panthers and Cancers for their dumb shit aimed at whites and any other racist shit.

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

I do think that bar was a bit in bad taste though. I'm not outraged but I do think he forgot himself. Plenty of ways to flip what Rain said without going there and looking socially clueless when you have sooooooooo many ways to approach the subject. It looks more like a serious lack of tact and self awareness than malicious. He just looks really dumb in my eyes

[J u s T C]

Originally Posted by K SERA

Yeah Lowkey..i always Felt like The Mods weren't Really a diverse Group of People,and None of them Represented me or My demographic,Maybe Noble..I'm a Black dude From Ny, who Grew Up in the 90s. I personally would never Invite any of my Friends of Any Color to Come check this site out,Its just Not for us...It sort of seems like ..Letsbeef is a "HipHop" website that doesn't Care about black people.

Being Black is Deeper than Skin color,and The N word isn't Just Reserved for African Americans..It's how those at the Top,View those at The Bottom.

In the rules Plagiarism is Bannable,Racism is Bannable and so Is Voter Fraud.But Racism is allowed.. But it has Limits..and that Limit Might be.. If Staff Likes you.

Wes I know you remember Panther and Cancer I never once tried or even thought of banning them even u used to join in. Not being racist with em but laughing n joking n stirring the pot like you knew it bullshit with no filter and other mods let them get away with much worse than you ever see now. I get it's different and, the history and it's complicated but it's not like we got hundreds of white racists here while the aforementioned got banned on sight. Give n take FoS and lets BH it's internet warriors being internet warriors who're there to be brushed off and laughed at.. I dunno. being a white brit it's easy for me to laugh at the Panthers and Cancers for their dumb shit aimed at whites and any other racist shit.

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

I do think that bar was a bit in bad taste though. I'm not outraged but I do think he forgot himself. Plenty of ways to flip what Rain said without going there and looking socially clueless when you have sooooooooo many ways to approach the subject. It looks more like a serious lack of tact and self awareness than malicious. He just looks really dumb in my eyes

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Jones

Wes I know you remember Panther and Cancer I never once tried or even thought of banning them even u used to join in. Not being racist with em but laughing n joking n stirring the pot like you knew it bullshit with no filter and other mods let them get away with much worse than you ever see now. I get it's different and, the history and it's complicated but it's not like we got hundreds of white racists here while the aforementioned got banned on sight. Give n take FoS and lets BH it's internet warriors being internet warriors who're there to be brushed off and laughed at.. I dunno. being a white brit it's easy for me to laugh at the Panthers and Cancers for their dumb shit aimed at whites and any other racist shit.[COLOR=Silver]

I've Always seen Myself as Being the Anti Version of Them,Yet at the same time,Not Condemning them Outright,because they Have the Right to Voice Their Opinion's. I specifically Remember Feuding with Both, on a daily Basis..But i did share a Comradery With them at Time's,.. They were the Only Visible Faces who Felt they were Championing a Cause..which only meant something to Those of Us who could Relate to The message They were Attempting To Convey.

It was me Who Exposed Panther for Being a So called black supremacist,but his Real Names Ian, his wife is Mexican and Is an electrician who works for the white man, etc..That was His schtick/His Gimmick,and we could see that,He was Basically A MR.GOODS who made sense when he Rapped...

Cancer was always an Extra Tough Guy who Obviously Over compensated for Things,i can't Recall Him Being Racist But he placed Emphasis on being Street and authentic and Living what you Rapped about,I hold Those same Ideals,although, in Battle Rap, you have to take some Thing's with a Grain of Salt.

Nicks Faux pas was the Equivalent of Donald Trump Retweeting Britain First.There is a way to do things and a way Not to,and When you're in a Certain Position, the levity of your Words will be Scrutinized,Unlike that of the People who are Voiceless,But it will Take the Masses.(the people upset might be trolls,but they do have a point)

I hold No Bias' Towards anyone.. i don't give a fuck what you do.You know,I just Play the Game,But Come on son.

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Jones

Wes I know you remember Panther and Cancer I never once tried or even thought of banning them even u used to join in. Not being racist with em but laughing n joking n stirring the pot like you knew it bullshit with no filter and other mods let them get away with much worse than you ever see now. I get it's different and, the history and it's complicated but it's not like we got hundreds of white racists here while the aforementioned got banned on sight. Give n take FoS and lets BH it's internet warriors being internet warriors who're there to be brushed off and laughed at.. I dunno. being a white brit it's easy for me to laugh at the Panthers and Cancers for their dumb shit aimed at whites and any other racist shit.[COLOR=Silver]

I've Always seen Myself as Being the Anti Version of Them,Yet at the same time,Not Condemning them Outright,because they Have the Right to Voice Their Opinion's. I specifically Remember Feuding with Both, on a daily Basis..But i did share a Comradery With them at Time's,.. They were the Only Visible Faces who Felt they were Championing a Cause..which only meant something to Those of Us who could Relate to The message They were Attempting To Convey.

It was me Who Exposed Panther for Being a So called black supremacist,but his Real Names Ian, his wife is Mexican and Is an electrician who works for the white man, etc..That was His schtick/His Gimmick,and we could see that,He was Basically A MR.GOODS who made sense when he Rapped...

Cancer was always an Extra Tough Guy who Obviously Over compensated for Things,i can't Recall Him Being Racist But he placed Emphasis on being Street and authentic and Living what you Rapped about,I hold Those same Ideals,although, in Battle Rap, you have to take some Thing's with a Grain of Salt.

Nicks Faux pas was the Equivalent of Donald Trump Retweeting Britain First.There is a way to do things and a way Not to,and When you're in a Certain Position, the levity of your Words will be Scrutinized,Unlike that of the People who are Voiceless,But it will Take the Masses.(the people upset might be trolls,but they do have a point)

I hold No Bias' Towards anyone.. i don't give a fuck what you do.You know,I just Play the Game,But Come on son.