Quote:
Originally Posted by NOBLE
I didn't say Berbers were black. I compared them to Latinos and said they look more black or more Arab depending on which region they are from, and then I pointed out examples of Berber or Tuareg people who phenotypically would be considered black.
I am familiar with the wall painting you are probably referring to. The Book of Gates in the tomb of Seti I. However, all the versions showing Caucasian-looking figures are reconstructions. The actual original tomb painting itself is so damaged and with faded colors that the figures could be interpreted to have looked otherwise when they were originally painted. Also, they were depicting a Libyan, not necessarily a Berber. Then, as is the case now, not all Libyans looked the same. North Africa had been invaded by Mediterranean Europeans (Romans) and also Phoenicians, but the Berbers are indigenous to North Africa and didn't come from elsewhere. White people may have been present in ancient North Africa, but they are not indigenous to it and they are not Berbers. Even if the image was meant to depict a Berber from Libya, I've already said "A Tuareg from Burkina Faso looks a lot different than one from Libya." A Berber from Libya looking "white" is not indicative of how all Berbers from other regions look.
I don't really like or subscribe to the term "Semitic" for describing people, maybe because it's based on the Bible, which I consider largely a myth. It comes from the sons of Noah (Ham, Shem, and Japhet) who are supposed to be the progenitors of the Hamites (Africans near the Levant--Egyptians, Ethiopians, etc.), Semites, and (no one really knows who Japhet is supposed to be the father of but I've heard people say Caucasian and some say east Asians). It doesn't account for Australian Aborigines or Polynesians, for example. It's how ancient Middle Easterners tried to explain the world around them, and their world was very small because there was so much they were unaware of. Truthfully, most of the people I've met who are self-described Jews, I would consider white...and I don't consider Arabs to be white. So "Semitic" as a term inclusive of both those people (European Jews and Middle Eastern Arabs) is inadequate to me because I consider them distinct. As a caveat, maybe because I'm such a PC Liberal (lol), I respect people's right to identify however they choose to, so it doesn't really matter what I think of the term "Semitic..." or who is white or who is black. If someone identifies as such, I will respect that and address them as such. Race, at the end of the day, is really an arbitrary social convention. What would pass for white or black to me could be different from what would pass as such for you. I'm not interested in forcing labels on anyone and I'd rather let them speak for themselves. All the Tuareg people I've personally met identified as black, if they used such terms, but I'm pretty sure there are also Tuareg people who identify as white. Who am I to tell them any different?
If there were black Moors, it isn't a "gigantic" misconception that the Moors were black.
There's only so much one can learn from Wikipedia entries. I have personally studied under Marabout and Sufi sheikhs. I've studied with sheikhs from the Tajani, Qadiri and Naqshabandi orders. The Sufis, like the Marabouts, are often considered heretics in the eyes or orthodox Muslims.
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"The Book of Gates" - Your answer makes me think you just googled it real quick. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're well versed in Egyptian Mythology/ History. However, claiming the depictions were too faded to tell the race is absurd. Egyptians made Africans look much different than Libyans.
"That was Libyans not Berbers" - I think you're confused with ancient Libyans and the modem state of Libya. Ancient Libyans are the ancestors of the Berber people. The inscription is much older than the Greek or Roman empires so they didn't affect the look of Libyans. Ancient Libya was from Morocco to Algeria btw.
"The Latin name*Libya*(from GreekΛιβύη,*Libyē) referred to the region west of the*Nile*generally corresponding to the modern*Maghreb. Its people were ancestors of the modern*Berbers.[1]Berbers occupied the area for thousands of years before the beginning of human records in ancient Egypt.Climate changes*affected the locations of the settlements."
"I pointed out they look black" - Berbers are not black nor were their ancestors. But there are black Africans that mixed with Berbers and adopted the Berber culture. That was around 700ad to 1100ad and the majority of Berbers are Berber / Arab with a little European and African mix.
Im glad you're such an expert and told me my wife's heritage didn't matter. Even though, she's Berber and has been to Libya, Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria several times. Of course, you know her ancestry better than her.
"I don't subscribe to the term Semitic" - Ok so you don't subscribe to science? Now im thinking you're trolling me. Or maybe you believe Hebrews were black just like you do Moors? Maybe you watch to much YouTube. Im sure you believe black Egyptians built the pyramids?
Semitic "adjective
1.
relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.
2.
relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic."
"Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs,*Assyrians,Samaritans,*Maronites,*Druze,Mand aeans, and*Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.[14]"
"I dont consider Arabs to be white" - It doesn't matter, Arabs are white by US standards.
"For 71 years, the United States has classified Americans of Middle Eastern and North African ancestry as “white”"
"Only so much one can learn from Wikipedia" - Well maybe you should start there cuz I've shown you to be wrong many times. If you think I learned from Wikipedia you're sadly mistaken.
"I've studied under Sufi Sheiks" - Are you saying you dance and sing well? Sufis are just the esoteric branch of Islam. And religion isn't race. Anyone can be a Sufi. I dont know what it has to do with Berbers tho. Point?
---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ----------
In my estimation black revisionist are as bad as white ones. Either blacks built everything and were Moors, Egyptians, Berbers, Hebrews and g0d or the great white race were Pharaohs, Aryans and the creators of mathematics and Noble behavior. Yeah... and if you think people are what ever race they identify with then you must believe Aryans are the great white race. Well, as long as white people believe they're such.
---------- Post added at 10:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 AM ----------
I'm a Scythian warrior btw
---------- Post added at 10:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------
Black revisionism, with support from it's liberal enforcers, is what made memes like "Hitler did nothing wrong" so effective and popular. Trolling begets trolling. No one ever gaf about Hitler, rather the reactions from saying it.
---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------