[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Nicholas

Tell that to someone with a serotonin deficiency. Some people need drugs, others don't. Lifestyle changes are excellent and enough for a lot of people, but not everyone. Absolutes are dangerous territory.

For some people depression is a passing condition spurred by a stressful time in their life. For others it's a lifelong condition caused by genetics or a hormone deficiency.

Also, I forgot to quote but I want to comment on something @NOBLE said. You used the word weak. Depression is not a weakness. That's like saying someone is weak for having asthma or schizophrenia. I'm sure it was just an oversight but thought I would throw my views down since this place is a hotbed of masculinity issues.

Come to think of it I have a related story. Last winter I was going through a stressful time which caused me to have a really bad eczema flare-up. I know that sounds trivial to those who think of eczema as a rash on their leg. This was way beyond that level. My skin was falling off all over my body, I had staph infections constantly. I basically looked like something from a horror film.

I was offered hospitalisation, immune suppressants and was put on oral steroids as well as the usual super high grade creams and bandages.

This whole condition was spurred mostly by stress and the cold weather. However it's very visual and obvious. If I was suffering from depression instead I probably would have been told to "Man up and get on with it". Funny that a physical condition is treated so much differently than a mental one.

Respect to this thread though as I thought the responses would be way worse. Props.

I wasn't categorically calling depression a result of weakness. I was saying some of what we call depression might be mental weakness while others are legitimate mental illness and I was asking where the line would be drawn between the two. You somewhat answered that when you said:

For some people depression is a passing condition spurred by a stressful time in their life. For others it's a lifelong condition caused by genetics or a hormone deficiency.

People react differently to stressors, and reactions can be learned and trained. There's a difference between, for example, someone who can't lift 45 kilograms because they are injured or have a degenerative bone disease that prevents them from doing so----and someone who can't lift it because they haven't been weight-training but could otherwise have the capacity to do so. That's who I would call "weak."
A stressor is anything that forces us to adjust or change course. We all face stress throughout our lives. It's when we either don't know what is causing a stressful situation or don't know what to do about it that the stress can become anxiety or depression.
For example, let's say you are cooking something and the pot catches on fire. That is a potentially stressful situation because it forces you to adjust since you obviously can't continue cooking they way you were and must now do something about the fire. Some people in this situation, because they know what is happening and what to do about it (or have been trained), would simply place the pot in the sink and run some water over it to put out the fire. Others, because they know that this can actually make the fire and resulting smoke even worse, would douse the fire with some baking soda. But suppose we have someone who doesn't know these things. The fire is spreading and they have absolutely no clue what to do about it. This is the type of person in whom the fire may cause a panic and the stressful situation manifests as anxiety or depression.
A lot of people don't know how to handle some of life's fires, but they otherwise could or be trained to. I'm not talking about people with low serotonin levels or hereditary mental predispositions.
I've personally talked to people who were feeling extremely depressed or contemplating suicide, and as a result of our talks, they adopted a different perspective which allowed them to be able to cope with what they were going through and come out of their depression. If all depression were something that couldn't be helped in this way, then there would be no such thing as successful counseling (a.k.a "training").

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Nicholas

Tell that to someone with a serotonin deficiency. Some people need drugs, others don't. Lifestyle changes are excellent and enough for a lot of people, but not everyone. Absolutes are dangerous territory.

For some people depression is a passing condition spurred by a stressful time in their life. For others it's a lifelong condition caused by genetics or a hormone deficiency.

Also, I forgot to quote but I want to comment on something @NOBLE said. You used the word weak. Depression is not a weakness. That's like saying someone is weak for having asthma or schizophrenia. I'm sure it was just an oversight but thought I would throw my views down since this place is a hotbed of masculinity issues.

Come to think of it I have a related story. Last winter I was going through a stressful time which caused me to have a really bad eczema flare-up. I know that sounds trivial to those who think of eczema as a rash on their leg. This was way beyond that level. My skin was falling off all over my body, I had staph infections constantly. I basically looked like something from a horror film.

I was offered hospitalisation, immune suppressants and was put on oral steroids as well as the usual super high grade creams and bandages.

This whole condition was spurred mostly by stress and the cold weather. However it's very visual and obvious. If I was suffering from depression instead I probably would have been told to "Man up and get on with it". Funny that a physical condition is treated so much differently than a mental one.

Respect to this thread though as I thought the responses would be way worse. Props.

I wasn't categorically calling depression a result of weakness. I was saying some of what we call depression might be mental weakness while others are legitimate mental illness and I was asking where the line would be drawn between the two. You somewhat answered that when you said:

For some people depression is a passing condition spurred by a stressful time in their life. For others it's a lifelong condition caused by genetics or a hormone deficiency.

People react differently to stressors, and reactions can be learned and trained. There's a difference between, for example, someone who can't lift 45 kilograms because they are injured or have a degenerative bone disease that prevents them from doing so----and someone who can't lift it because they haven't been weight-training but could otherwise have the capacity to do so. That's who I would call "weak."
A stressor is anything that forces us to adjust or change course. We all face stress throughout our lives. It's when we either don't know what is causing a stressful situation or don't know what to do about it that the stress can become anxiety or depression.
For example, let's say you are cooking something and the pot catches on fire. That is a potentially stressful situation because it forces you to adjust since you obviously can't continue cooking they way you were and must now do something about the fire. Some people in this situation, because they know what is happening and what to do about it (or have been trained), would simply place the pot in the sink and run some water over it to put out the fire. Others, because they know that this can actually make the fire and resulting smoke even worse, would douse the fire with some baking soda. But suppose we have someone who doesn't know these things. The fire is spreading and they have absolutely no clue what to do about it. This is the type of person in whom the fire may cause a panic and the stressful situation manifests as anxiety or depression.
A lot of people don't know how to handle some of life's fires, but they otherwise could or be trained to. I'm not talking about people with low serotonin levels or hereditary mental predispositions.
I've personally talked to people who were feeling extremely depressed or contemplating suicide, and as a result of our talks, they adopted a different perspective which allowed them to be able to cope with what they were going through and come out of their depression. If all depression were something that couldn't be helped in this way, then there would be no such thing as successful counseling (a.k.a "training").