Originally Posted by Dono

It's not about the individual level, it's on a statistical level. Statistically speaking, white people are more likely to get jobs over their black counterparts even when they have the exact same qualifications. Does that mean it'll happen everywhere in every situation? No.

So yes, it's possible to overcome disadvantage, but to say race isn't at all a factor is completely delusional. There's countless studies that show otherwise. Or would you like to contend that black individuals, women, and other minorities that have statistically worse outcomes are inherently less talented than white people?

Where are these statistics? The rarity of people having the EXACT same qualifications and experience is ridiculously large.

It's not just "possible", that's an under statement. You either do or you don't, and each is a choice.

What studies?

Because of the class system, I'd say for a high level job there will be 50 white applicants and 10 black applicants. If they pick a white guy...they're not picking favourites based on race? What happens when the interviewer is a black man? Nothing change?

I can't work behind a counter in a shop, the most readily available job for an unemployed young person in Ireland (not that labouring is dead), because that's a job women almost exclusively get. Is this sexism? Should I make a speech about having a dream over this? No, based on the experiences of the employer, they find women work in this job better. This doesn't make them sexists. If an employer picks a white person over a black person, does it make them a racist right off the bat?

Just so many excuses get thrown around. You could change the words race and black in our debate, and make it working class and poor, and you could have the exact same debate with a guy growing up in a council estate in Glasgow. "No opportunities", "No one will hire me" blah blah blah. Anyone can overcome anything, if they stop making fucking excuses about everything.

Do these people watch Men of Honour and only pick up on the racism part, and not the black man becoming a master diver part?

Originally Posted by Dono

It's not about the individual level, it's on a statistical level. Statistically speaking, white people are more likely to get jobs over their black counterparts even when they have the exact same qualifications. Does that mean it'll happen everywhere in every situation? No.

So yes, it's possible to overcome disadvantage, but to say race isn't at all a factor is completely delusional. There's countless studies that show otherwise. Or would you like to contend that black individuals, women, and other minorities that have statistically worse outcomes are inherently less talented than white people?

Where are these statistics? The rarity of people having the EXACT same qualifications and experience is ridiculously large.

It's not just "possible", that's an under statement. You either do or you don't, and each is a choice.

What studies?

Because of the class system, I'd say for a high level job there will be 50 white applicants and 10 black applicants. If they pick a white guy...they're not picking favourites based on race? What happens when the interviewer is a black man? Nothing change?

I can't work behind a counter in a shop, the most readily available job for an unemployed young person in Ireland (not that labouring is dead), because that's a job women almost exclusively get. Is this sexism? Should I make a speech about having a dream over this? No, based on the experiences of the employer, they find women work in this job better. This doesn't make them sexists. If an employer picks a white person over a black person, does it make them a racist right off the bat?

Just so many excuses get thrown around. You could change the words race and black in our debate, and make it working class and poor, and you could have the exact same debate with a guy growing up in a council estate in Glasgow. "No opportunities", "No one will hire me" blah blah blah. Anyone can overcome anything, if they stop making fucking excuses about everything.

Do these people watch Men of Honour and only pick up on the racism part, and not the black man becoming a master diver part?