Svengali
07-07-2019, 11:00 AM
https://i.imgur.com/kdBWjw0.jpg
Over the last few weeks I've been doing a lot of reading and researching on the battlers of this site and I thought it would be fun to do some breakdowns. It seems to me that Jimmy Hoffa is the current man to beat being 46 - 0 in the basic arena, the current text grand champion and having recently won the LBT title from Rai. Therefore it makes sense to start with him.
In my experience when it comes to the career-defining battles the outcome is often dependent on what one party brings to the table that the other does not. NawkOut (https://www.letsbeef.com/forums/member.php?u=59240) famously used this to amass his 124 - 0 unbeaten record by exploiting a lack of wordplay on the site at the time. His opponents would often either lose as they were simply missing an element that NawkOut possessed or end up trying to out do him at his own game.
Let's then look at what Jimmy brings to his battles reliably that gives him an edge...
In his flagship battles Jimmy almost exclusively uses two multies to each punchline. This enables him to fit more punchlines in to his box but comes at the cost of a more lengthy set up which might make the punch hit harder. You can see this in his battles with Rai and Celsius.
Vs Rai (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=512558)
Rai's a cuck! His girl gets passed around LB, you'll see her WITH A COUPLE STARS! No "Exclusive Membership", but as soon as she "joined the site, we knew she'd GET IT FROM THE START"!
Vs Celsius (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=511787)
Cel got a price? A shot'll get his CHEST POPPED 'N LOOSENED, "For a couple bucks, I'll put a hammer to his body" like a STRESSED COLLEGE STUDENT!
Occasionally Jimmy will negate some of the cost on impact of a shorter set up by scheming immediately into a second punchline.
Vs Celsius (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=511787)
Cel got a price? A shot'll get his CHEST POPPED 'N LOOSENED, "For a couple bucks, I'll put a hammer to his body" like a STRESSED COLLEGE STUDENT! Singled 'em out to give 'em wings, one shot from the TECH'S GOT 'EM POOLIN', meanin' this "Halo's just for him" without an XBOX EXCLUSIVE!
Whilst this is more difficult to pull off due to the difficulty of scheming multiple high quality punchlines it allows the verse to read smoother whilst still achieving the quantity of punches which has led Jimmy to recent success.
Jimmy also makes great use of metaphore in his build up, in fact this is by far his favourite way to create a punchline. Often they're not direct idioms which does take away from the impact but gives the advantage of making the lines more original. You can see the scheming and metaphores in this part of his verse against Rai.
Ya style's weak punches & stretched multis, you're RAPPIN' WITH FORCED TEXT sayin' "the reign'll never end but have nothin' in the tank" like ya outta gas as ya TRAVEL THE NORTHWEST! You're in the park daily, buggin' folks 'n ASKIN' EM FOR SEX, so you been "banged on the bench" more times than what a GAVEL IN COURT GETS! You owe protection money, now I'm GATHERIN' YOUR DEBT! Try hidin' in the weed ya grow in ya closet? I'll just light a MATCH AT THE DOOR STEP and "burn you alive, as ya blend in with the grass" like a JAPANESE WAR VET!
I don't think it's coincidental that this was also heavily cited in peoples votes as being a stand out portion of the verse. The combination of metaphores and scheming really showed off Jimmy's strengths and created an impactful segment.
I think the highest chance of success to beating Jimmy comes from three elements. Firstly Jimmy has an open distaste for personals and this is seen in his general aversion to using them on his opponents as well as his outspokenness on the forums. Jimmy prefers a straight-shooting battle, but he's often struggled against opponents that take advantage of this.
For example Esso scored one of the most decisive victories against Jimmy (https://www.letsbeef.com/tournament_battle_details.php?id=1961§ion=tb) in the March 2017 tournament with a verse that almost exclusively targeted him personally.
Let's Go...U can't beat me yourself..so I bet my LOSSES TO SHODAN make up a LOT OF YER WHOLE PLAN but I 'keep tabs on what bubbles up' like the 'TOP OF A COKE CAN' and 'When Im dialed in? Its not a joke', so LOCK'S GIVEN NO CHANCE because clearly 'I have your number'...and, bitch I GOT IT FROM ROHAN'! There some 'things that you don't mess with' and Im not 'TALKIN THE ZOHAN' chatting up someone else's girl? That shit should STOP AS A GROWN MAN but now you're 'findin it hard to swallow' like someone 'THROTTLED YER THROAT GLANDS' you 'stuck yer neck out' for that girl...and got 'CAUGHT IN A CHOKESLAM'!
That result was almost replicated exactly by Bleu in the finals of Basic Text Tournament #15 (https://www.letsbeef.com/tournament_battle_details.php?id=2073§ion=tb). We're unable to see the verses due to account deletions but the vote expos again cite personals heavily.
Another element that Jimmy is vulnerable to is wordplay, specifically oronyms. When Hoffa does rarely use wordplay it tends to be more simplistic like in this battle.
Vs KG The Prince (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=509898)
Ya fantasize bout bein' Shady, usin' LOTS OF MATHERS'S SCHEMES. Tryna be "Em, L.K."? Fuggit I'll getcha "SHOT FOR HAVIN' THE DREAM"!
An opponent that made good use of more complex wordplay could use this to some success against Jimmy in an attempt to replicate the "NawkOut" effect. A more extreme example of this can be seen in Revan's taken down of MAN DOWN in which he used wordplay in 3 out of his 4 bars.
Revan vs MAN DOWN (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=396883)
if you dont win? Then im SQUEEZING THE K'S SON! So you better "Win Tho, Or I'll Put You Down" like SEATING ARRANGEMENTS!!! (Window Or Aisle) [..OVA..] Just killed this ROOKIE FAG! (ITS NOTHIN) i flipped the "Whole... Splat... Eight..." w/out lickin PUSSY AFTER NUTTING!!! (Hole/Ate) Ya "Speech Grimey?" nah u aint THOUGHT AS WORTHY just cuz he keeps "Saying 'Mate" dont mean he TALKIN 'DIRTY!!! (Say & Mate)
There are two weaknesses inherent in the two multie set up that Jimmy has used to great success. The first is a battler that is able to also exploit a style with a high volume of punches but a greater propensity to scheme. A true master of this is Skizzo;
Vs Musashi (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=479517)
Had a "Gut feeling" Youd win?.. Come GET SOME MEDICINE AND LIPO. & Ya "Sorry ass'll Have ya organs stickin out", Like i've SET DEPRESSION TO A MAESTRO. So Ya Little âVenture Ahâ Get Shitted Onâ, the STRESS AFFECTED HIM IN LIFE THO, cus If The outcomes "Black & White"? I've PREPPED THE MESSAGE IN ALBINO, & When I say ya "Deliveries a little ass, Man", I don't mean PET DETECTIVE IN THE RHINO./
A more difficult but still achievable feat is the battler that uses a longer set up to give his punches more impact. This is always more of a gamble because if a punch doesn't resonate with the voters then you've sacrificed a great deal of box space. A proponent of this style is DaDDiO;
Vs Subreal (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=492029)
my SOLDIERS STAND ENGAGED FOR WAR 'cut-THROAT TO LACERATE THIS BORE' like MOST DECAPITATED PORK He 'ain't got the nerve to bring his back up' to a POTENT BATCH OF ANGENT ORNGE when his 'group is full of more frail asses' than COLON CANCER PATIENT WARDS
This style lends itself far more to longer battles and is almost impossible to pull off successfully in an eight line battle. Not that that ever stopped DaDDiO.
To conclude Jimmy makes fantastic use of more creative metaphore set ups and utilises a short bar style to ensure his verses have a high volume of punchlines. However his aversion for personals, lack of complex oronyms and the short rhyme schemes that characterise him might be the key to victory for anyone skilful enough to pull it off.
*Side note, the "Killing the King" title is an idea stolen from Jack Slack the MMA journalist. Highly recommend his articles if you have any interest in combat sports.
Over the last few weeks I've been doing a lot of reading and researching on the battlers of this site and I thought it would be fun to do some breakdowns. It seems to me that Jimmy Hoffa is the current man to beat being 46 - 0 in the basic arena, the current text grand champion and having recently won the LBT title from Rai. Therefore it makes sense to start with him.
In my experience when it comes to the career-defining battles the outcome is often dependent on what one party brings to the table that the other does not. NawkOut (https://www.letsbeef.com/forums/member.php?u=59240) famously used this to amass his 124 - 0 unbeaten record by exploiting a lack of wordplay on the site at the time. His opponents would often either lose as they were simply missing an element that NawkOut possessed or end up trying to out do him at his own game.
Let's then look at what Jimmy brings to his battles reliably that gives him an edge...
In his flagship battles Jimmy almost exclusively uses two multies to each punchline. This enables him to fit more punchlines in to his box but comes at the cost of a more lengthy set up which might make the punch hit harder. You can see this in his battles with Rai and Celsius.
Vs Rai (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=512558)
Rai's a cuck! His girl gets passed around LB, you'll see her WITH A COUPLE STARS! No "Exclusive Membership", but as soon as she "joined the site, we knew she'd GET IT FROM THE START"!
Vs Celsius (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=511787)
Cel got a price? A shot'll get his CHEST POPPED 'N LOOSENED, "For a couple bucks, I'll put a hammer to his body" like a STRESSED COLLEGE STUDENT!
Occasionally Jimmy will negate some of the cost on impact of a shorter set up by scheming immediately into a second punchline.
Vs Celsius (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=511787)
Cel got a price? A shot'll get his CHEST POPPED 'N LOOSENED, "For a couple bucks, I'll put a hammer to his body" like a STRESSED COLLEGE STUDENT! Singled 'em out to give 'em wings, one shot from the TECH'S GOT 'EM POOLIN', meanin' this "Halo's just for him" without an XBOX EXCLUSIVE!
Whilst this is more difficult to pull off due to the difficulty of scheming multiple high quality punchlines it allows the verse to read smoother whilst still achieving the quantity of punches which has led Jimmy to recent success.
Jimmy also makes great use of metaphore in his build up, in fact this is by far his favourite way to create a punchline. Often they're not direct idioms which does take away from the impact but gives the advantage of making the lines more original. You can see the scheming and metaphores in this part of his verse against Rai.
Ya style's weak punches & stretched multis, you're RAPPIN' WITH FORCED TEXT sayin' "the reign'll never end but have nothin' in the tank" like ya outta gas as ya TRAVEL THE NORTHWEST! You're in the park daily, buggin' folks 'n ASKIN' EM FOR SEX, so you been "banged on the bench" more times than what a GAVEL IN COURT GETS! You owe protection money, now I'm GATHERIN' YOUR DEBT! Try hidin' in the weed ya grow in ya closet? I'll just light a MATCH AT THE DOOR STEP and "burn you alive, as ya blend in with the grass" like a JAPANESE WAR VET!
I don't think it's coincidental that this was also heavily cited in peoples votes as being a stand out portion of the verse. The combination of metaphores and scheming really showed off Jimmy's strengths and created an impactful segment.
I think the highest chance of success to beating Jimmy comes from three elements. Firstly Jimmy has an open distaste for personals and this is seen in his general aversion to using them on his opponents as well as his outspokenness on the forums. Jimmy prefers a straight-shooting battle, but he's often struggled against opponents that take advantage of this.
For example Esso scored one of the most decisive victories against Jimmy (https://www.letsbeef.com/tournament_battle_details.php?id=1961§ion=tb) in the March 2017 tournament with a verse that almost exclusively targeted him personally.
Let's Go...U can't beat me yourself..so I bet my LOSSES TO SHODAN make up a LOT OF YER WHOLE PLAN but I 'keep tabs on what bubbles up' like the 'TOP OF A COKE CAN' and 'When Im dialed in? Its not a joke', so LOCK'S GIVEN NO CHANCE because clearly 'I have your number'...and, bitch I GOT IT FROM ROHAN'! There some 'things that you don't mess with' and Im not 'TALKIN THE ZOHAN' chatting up someone else's girl? That shit should STOP AS A GROWN MAN but now you're 'findin it hard to swallow' like someone 'THROTTLED YER THROAT GLANDS' you 'stuck yer neck out' for that girl...and got 'CAUGHT IN A CHOKESLAM'!
That result was almost replicated exactly by Bleu in the finals of Basic Text Tournament #15 (https://www.letsbeef.com/tournament_battle_details.php?id=2073§ion=tb). We're unable to see the verses due to account deletions but the vote expos again cite personals heavily.
Another element that Jimmy is vulnerable to is wordplay, specifically oronyms. When Hoffa does rarely use wordplay it tends to be more simplistic like in this battle.
Vs KG The Prince (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=509898)
Ya fantasize bout bein' Shady, usin' LOTS OF MATHERS'S SCHEMES. Tryna be "Em, L.K."? Fuggit I'll getcha "SHOT FOR HAVIN' THE DREAM"!
An opponent that made good use of more complex wordplay could use this to some success against Jimmy in an attempt to replicate the "NawkOut" effect. A more extreme example of this can be seen in Revan's taken down of MAN DOWN in which he used wordplay in 3 out of his 4 bars.
Revan vs MAN DOWN (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=396883)
if you dont win? Then im SQUEEZING THE K'S SON! So you better "Win Tho, Or I'll Put You Down" like SEATING ARRANGEMENTS!!! (Window Or Aisle) [..OVA..] Just killed this ROOKIE FAG! (ITS NOTHIN) i flipped the "Whole... Splat... Eight..." w/out lickin PUSSY AFTER NUTTING!!! (Hole/Ate) Ya "Speech Grimey?" nah u aint THOUGHT AS WORTHY just cuz he keeps "Saying 'Mate" dont mean he TALKIN 'DIRTY!!! (Say & Mate)
There are two weaknesses inherent in the two multie set up that Jimmy has used to great success. The first is a battler that is able to also exploit a style with a high volume of punches but a greater propensity to scheme. A true master of this is Skizzo;
Vs Musashi (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=479517)
Had a "Gut feeling" Youd win?.. Come GET SOME MEDICINE AND LIPO. & Ya "Sorry ass'll Have ya organs stickin out", Like i've SET DEPRESSION TO A MAESTRO. So Ya Little âVenture Ahâ Get Shitted Onâ, the STRESS AFFECTED HIM IN LIFE THO, cus If The outcomes "Black & White"? I've PREPPED THE MESSAGE IN ALBINO, & When I say ya "Deliveries a little ass, Man", I don't mean PET DETECTIVE IN THE RHINO./
A more difficult but still achievable feat is the battler that uses a longer set up to give his punches more impact. This is always more of a gamble because if a punch doesn't resonate with the voters then you've sacrificed a great deal of box space. A proponent of this style is DaDDiO;
Vs Subreal (https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_details.php?section=tb&id=492029)
my SOLDIERS STAND ENGAGED FOR WAR 'cut-THROAT TO LACERATE THIS BORE' like MOST DECAPITATED PORK He 'ain't got the nerve to bring his back up' to a POTENT BATCH OF ANGENT ORNGE when his 'group is full of more frail asses' than COLON CANCER PATIENT WARDS
This style lends itself far more to longer battles and is almost impossible to pull off successfully in an eight line battle. Not that that ever stopped DaDDiO.
To conclude Jimmy makes fantastic use of more creative metaphore set ups and utilises a short bar style to ensure his verses have a high volume of punchlines. However his aversion for personals, lack of complex oronyms and the short rhyme schemes that characterise him might be the key to victory for anyone skilful enough to pull it off.
*Side note, the "Killing the King" title is an idea stolen from Jack Slack the MMA journalist. Highly recommend his articles if you have any interest in combat sports.