Wordplay preferences...

[GOOD GRIEF]

Ok now since I've gotten back from last year you people have been throwing around this "wordplay has to work both ways" bullshit. At first I thought you were talking about forced wp but then I figured out you wanted the entire sentence with the wp has to work both ways. That's cool and I all but IMO someone shouldn't be bashed for using a different execution style. Now wp that is clean and relevant should be accepted because whether or not it's perfect both ways is irrelevant.

Example... Pun wp. You remember that lame knock joke you heard in school when you were little?

Knock knock
Who's there
Banana

Knock knock
Who's there?
Orange
Orange who?
"Orange" you glad I didn't say banana?

Dumb example I know, but still important. "Orange you glad" doesn't make sense. But (PAY ATTENTION YOU FUCKS) but the joke was still effective. It doesn't work both ways, but the wp is there. You solely recognizing the wp is the joke. Feel me. Does wp working both ways cleaner? Yes? Is it the only way people should be allowed to execute? No.

I hate when people dictate how to battle to others. I dampens creativity, makes everyone's shit look the same, and closes the doors to people trying to introduce new styles.

[Row]

^ agreed, good shit

[TRILLUMINATI]

For me it's about how creative it is. " I just burnt Jew like Hitler " burnt you, same shit, hitler - jew reference. It's when people try to stretch out some off the wall reaching shit is when it gets awkward. I think Mr. Wavy said, " Like a radio tuner, I kill so many battles, Frequent, see/Frequency " it's just the way that you do it, and whether you use it as a form of multi - or the punch line. To me it seems like it's more of a reach if you use it as a punchline.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

COMPLETELY disagree.

For me, the grammar has to be down. That's the entire point for me. The reason that's a lame joke is because....it's lame. If lame punches start taking off, then cool, that's a genre I guess? But for me, you HAVE to get your wordplay working both ways.

I can think of two sentences that sound alike just as easily as the next guy, and it's pretty easy to think of a metaphor punch off of anything. The hard part is being able to connect both of those together to be able to make a punch. Here's an example of a line I think is BAD wordplay. Probably Rican's.

I Wonda battle as I Cosmo damage like the FAIRLY ODD PARENTS

It works as in...

I won da battle as I cause mo' damage...

But "I wonda battle". How is that making sense? That's the entire point, to find a way to make it work both ways in sentences.

An example of wordplay that DOES (nearly) work for me is from UA...

the way "Bitches" "Soak Up" this "Pussy's Flow" is an (Oaverie Action)"OVER REACTION" ..."PERIOD!"

Pussy flow is a little bit off, mainly because that's such an off the wall term for period. But it works the two ways I'm meaning.

the way bitches soak up this pussy's flow is an overreaction...period.

the way bitches soak up this pussy's flow is an ovary action;- period. (Added in the grammatical syntax).

Another thing that annoys me is that lines get build up WAY too early now. We're talking like 3 full LB text box lines, with the first few words having like "bitches soak up this pussy's flow" being written in there, but the actual punchline doesn't appear until AGES later. Think of it as live battling. If you through in a subtle reference 20 seconds before you deliver the punch, no one remembers it and it adds nothing.

[Rican]

I agree with Good Grief

[Manhattan]

EtH summed that up perfectly

[GOOD GRIEF]

COMPLETELY disagree.

For me, the grammar has to be down. That's the entire point for me. The reason that's a lame joke is because....it's lame. If lame punches start taking off, then cool, that's a genre I guess? But for me, you HAVE to get your wordplay working both ways.

I can think of two sentences that sound alike just as easily as the next guy, and it's pretty easy to think of a metaphor punch off of anything. The hard part is being able to connect both of those together to be able to make a punch. Here's an example of a line I think is BAD wordplay. Probably Rican's.

I Wonda battle as I Cosmo damage like the FAIRLY ODD PARENTS

It works as in...

I won da battle as I cause mo' damage...

But "I wonda battle". How is that making sense? That's the entire point, to find a way to make it work both ways in sentences.

An example of wordplay that DOES (nearly) work for me is from UA...

the way "Bitches" "Soak Up" this "Pussy's Flow" is an (Oaverie Action)"OVER REACTION" ..."PERIOD!"

Pussy flow is a little bit off, mainly because that's such an off the wall term for period. But it works the two ways I'm meaning.

the way bitches soak up this pussy's flow is an overreaction...period.

the way bitches soak up this pussy's flow is an ovary action;- period. (Added in the grammatical syntax).

Another thing that annoys me is that lines get build up WAY too early now. We're talking like 3 full LB text box lines, with the first few words having like "bitches soak up this pussy's flow" being written in there, but the actual punchline doesn't appear until AGES later. Think of it as live battling. If you through in a subtle reference 20 seconds before you deliver the punch, no one remembers it and it adds nothing.

It's not a lame joke it's for lack of a better word a pun. Puns were the bases for wp and punches. I get what you mean about grammar. It's just another style. There is a better way of doing tho then your example.

---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

I'll meet you half way...I admit sometimes it's just bad or lazy execution. But other times it's a good wp overlooked by a fine grammar nazi such as yourself.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

I threw the example to Manhattan.

A thread like this is just begging for people to drop successful wordplay like...

He trolls on the norm and baits us in like the PSYCHO PROTAGONIST

I bet selected dudes could say that and it's cool. No questions asked.

[ILLoKWENT]

the goldenrule: good wordplay SHOULD work both ways.... LAZY wordplay works one way..

dont get 'wordplay' confused with 'word association'... which DOESNT NEED TO BE GRAMATICALLY CORRECT. but is mainly thrown in as little references in the setup lines toward your main concept/punch

[Phracture]

Funny cus you explained the point I been tryna make, Thanks GOOD GRIEF

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Although completely unintended, this thread could be the burial of LB.

As ILL said, it's lazy wordplay. There's essentially a right and wrong way to do it. Guys like Rican and Dissizit, or the ":" crew, are big offenders of this. GrizzEAT does it too (ironically I've never noticed it being a huge issue with Grief's verses).

Guys are gonna listen to GG here. Rican was genuinely working on this a lot a while ago when we were running lines by each other on chat. Seeing another "vet" speak out for this style to be fine means he'll probably have no issue using it again.

I already pretty much have Pulse, Rican, Dissizit and GrizzEAR on my list of guys I can't read verses from. Rican less so lately, but I've always just hated everything about all 4's writing. I know I don't vote a lot anyways but if the next generation of the site are looking up to guys using these styles, it's giving them some horrible habits.




A punchline is a punchline, technical or not. Guys like DaDDiO etc. can lack technical writing and still hit hard. If you're that kind of guy, fair fucks, I won't pick it out. But if you're trying to come with wordplay, you're trying to impress the reader, not just show them a dope punch. I'm not impressed when people do things wrong.

[GOOD GRIEF]

I get you. I guess we should just squash it tbh. Ok. I'm done. Anyone else?

[Silver Dollar Sam]

Interesting thread GOOD GRIEF....catch 22....You and EtH both mentioned notable facts here....

[joan of arc]

wordplay should work both ways.

GG you have a pretty good grasp on execution, so dont you think seeing a simple and boring one way wordplay takes away from the battle?

[GOOD GRIEF]

wordplay should work both ways.

GG you have a pretty good grasp on execution, so dont you think seeing a simple and boring one way wordplay takes away from the battle?

I know how to execute straight forward wordplay. I can do straight laced shit like the best of them... but sometimes I just don't. When I made this awhile ago it's because I saw a style being critiqued in a way that wasn't even an issue before. A style that's used occasionally by RULE and DaDDiO (my two favorite of all time and the best the site has seen). I just feel there is a difference between forced bars and different wp styles.

By all means I see why some don't like it. I just think it being seen as a glaring flaw instead of stylized is an issue. There's clean and then there's bad.

What next... we gonna get on using slanted multis? (which ironically people have actually started harping on.)

[EtH]

All I can say is thank FUCK that my prediction was off. Shoutout to Manny, Lock, Shodan, Babylon, Bleu, Esso and others for making sure that abysmal period of LB was phased out.

Everything I said in here is still true 5 years later.

Grief, RULE wasn't sharked on ANYTHING. The guy used EtH in a tee (Affinity) against me and none of the voters even said a word about it despite it being 33% of his entire verse.

It's not a different style. Writing :-

"Champ? Its you that we see? Nah You shame us when you under take a bad verse like PROFESSIONAL WRESTLERS (Cena, Sheamus, Undertaker)"

is ALWAYS the incorrect way to do wordplay. If you can be "unconventional" and deliver things that are technically bad well, no harm done. But if you do something wrong and it's pointed out, theres no complaints to make.

[GOOD GRIEF]

All I can say is thank FUCK that my prediction was off. Shoutout to Manny, Lock, Shodan, Babylon, Bleu, Esso and others for making sure that abysmal period of LB was phased out.

Everything I said in here is still true 5 years later.

Grief, RULE wasn't sharked on ANYTHING. The guy used EtH in a tee (Affinity) against me and none of the voters even said a word about it despite it being 33% of his entire verse.

It's not a different style. Writing :-

"Champ? Its you that we see? Nah You shame us when you under take a bad verse like PROFESSIONAL WRESTLERS (Cena, Sheamus, Undertaker)"

is ALWAYS the incorrect way to do wordplay. If you can be "unconventional" and deliver things that are technically bad well, no harm done. But if you do something wrong and it's pointed out, theres no complaints to make.

That’s forced wp. That doesn’t even work ONE WAY. Lol if his whole verse was that bad then yeah you got robbed. ETH/Aff????

I slept on it, thought it over, and I’m just taking it as everyone wanting cleaner wp which is good. I see the error in what I was saying now...

BUT, we need to always take a step back and consider if we are condemning a stylistic choice or just shit wp. I think my “Orange” argument still stands from the first post.

[EtH]

That’s forced wp. That doesn’t even work ONE WAY. Lol if his whole verse was that bad then yeah you got robbed. ETH/Aff????

I slept on it, thought it over, and I’m just taking it as everyone wanting cleaner wp which is good. I see the error in what I was saying now...

BUT, we need to always take a step back and consider if we are condemning a stylistic choice or just shit wp. I think my “Orange” argument still stands from the first post.

He had two Aff/EtH bars in one battle I believe, but that's what I mean. Using RULE as a point of "no one called him out" is because people were blinded. I used to completely slate Jacoby because he wrote like that 24/7 back in the day.

Your orange argument doesn't stand because it does work both ways. Because you say "Knock knock - who's there - Orange", that makes Orange the first name as per the joke. So that means it goes:-

Knock Knock
Who's There?
Orange
Orange Who?
Orange Yougladtoseeme (a name)

Knock knock
Who's There?
Orange
Orange Who?
Aren't you glad to see me?

If the "stylistic choice" doesn't pay off, then the things done incorrectly should be pointed out to me.

I do sort of agree these days that maybe people shouldn't go overboard with conventional writing. I see a lot of guys really similar to how I used to write, and if you don't have the creativity to come up with hard as fuck bars, it doesn't really work out. So I'd encourage people thinking a little bit out there and off the wall. I try to replicate DaDDiO's more out there bars like:-

Your RAPING IS SO *YAWN* that I \vkjn dafbklbaz dlknfd shit, I ACTUALLY DOZED OFF

That's out there and really creative for a text battle and that sort of stuff I liked the idea of using. Like in my tag tournament battle where I wrote like 2 lines dissing Skizzo to show how little I respected my opponents.

[GOOD GRIEF]

He had two Aff/EtH bars in one battle I believe, but that's what I mean. Using RULE as a point of "no one called him out" is because people were blinded. I used to completely slate Jacoby because he wrote like that 24/7 back in the day.

Your orange argument doesn't stand because it does work both ways. Because you say "Knock knock - who's there - Orange", that makes Orange the first name as per the joke. So that means it goes:-

Knock Knock
Who's There?
Orange
Orange Who?
Orange Yougladtoseeme (a name)

Knock knock
Who's There?
Orange
Orange Who?
Aren't you glad to see me?

If the "stylistic choice" doesn't pay off, then the things done incorrectly should be pointed out to me.

I do sort of agree these days that maybe people shouldn't go overboard with conventional writing. I see a lot of guys really similar to how I used to write, and if you don't have the creativity to come up with hard as fuck bars, it doesn't really work out. So I'd encourage people thinking a little bit out there and off the wall. I try to replicate DaDDiO's more out there bars like:-

Your RAPING IS SO *YAWN* that I \vkjn dafbklbaz dlknfd shit, I ACTUALLY DOZED OFF

That's out there and really creative for a text battle and that sort of stuff I liked the idea of using. Like in my tag tournament battle where I wrote like 2 lines dissing Skizzo to show how little I respected my opponents.

That’s another variation of the Orange joke. The banana joke in tandem with the orange line doesn’t make sense 2 ways in the form of a statement. “Orange you glad”? See what I mean? Who says “Orange you glad?” Are you asking the Orange a question or the person answering a joke?

See how nit picky that is? The nitpick Missed the idea entirely. Lol THATS what I’m arguing against.


But yeah EtH. I sort of appreciate the compliment you gave me back then. Like I said, I’ve been around and thrown some good 2 way wp in my day. But when I don’t people take issue with. By all means I’m not saying theyre wrong, but why criticize the person as if they don’t know good wp? It may just be different. It should be considered. However Overall I do agree with you. Good points

[Shodan]

I don't want to sound like I'm some rap-battle pope invoking my own infallibility, but the simple fact is that wordplays which don't result in both readings creating grammatically valid phrases have been mostly been phased out, and using them in 2019 is simply the wrong approach.

I won't deny that a wordplay may be still be good despite not working in the way I just described, but if it doesn't, it 1. loses a lot of the impact that it would otherwise have and 2. is at extreme risk of being laughably terrible.

And, in any case, you're trying to say that the consensus of the top battlers on the site is wrong. Even if you are right and we've been mistaken for years, you're fighting an impossibly uphill battle to convince us otherwise. Write your verses however you want, but don't expect us to instantly adapt to how you like to write things. You aren't the chief legislator of what should and shouldn't pass on LetsBeef.com.

Finally, has it never occurred to you how stupid it is to use a CHILDREN'S JOKE that even TODDLERS KNOW IS CORNY as an example?? This is uncomfortably close to the LB equivalent of trying to disprove quantum physics by showing a group of eminent professors a preschooler's crayon drawing of an atom.

[Seul]

TL;DR.

Wordplay should work both ways, that's what makes it more difficult & rewarding to do.

[Rican]

Biggi Mombasa

: for Life.