What are your feelings on Abortion?

[Iron Mike]

Are you for or against it? What are your reasons?

[Óðinn]

I'm all for it if the lady was raped and got pregnant due to that, an didn't want it.... which would make sense. Then i see it as a just cause. No point bringing a kid into THAT sort of world/situation.

[Rant]

Plan B: It's life or death.













Sorry ladies.




































Seriously, though. I'm pro-choice. Her body, her decision.

[Iron Mike]

What about when the lady was not raped and she just doesn't feel like having a child? Should it be against the law to abort a fetus in those cases?

[Óðinn]

What about when the lady was not raped and she just doesn't feel like having a child? Should it be against the law to abort a fetus in those cases?

I think she should have the baby anyway an then give the baby (if she truly doesn't want it) to a couple who do but can't.

[Supsie]

Idk The baby is already alive I think it can feel pain so ain't it like murder? Worlds a mean place tho an being a kid with no one is gonna be tough. I don't think it's right actually I don't care about the mother who wants her child gone I feel for the kid.

[Rant]

I think that life is a matter of birth. Prior to that point, it is merely a matter of the fetus being a part of a living entity, the mother.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Ireland has it perfect. Abortion is illegal, so situations of underage pregnancy and stuff don't result in unneeded abortions, but if the situation absolutely calls for it, they can take the trip over to England.

[Wigsplit]

If the baby is gonna be brought into a helpless situation you might as well prevent it while it's nothing more than cells, but if you just feel like you are a lazy bitch who dint want to take care of the child, then I disagree. All depends on the situation, wrap that mofucka up if u ain't man enough to own up to your decisions.

[Jesse Pinkman]

I think she should have the baby anyway an then give the baby (if she truly doesn't want it) to a couple who do but can't.

this causes more emotional problems than solutions, not to mention financial..if there were programs and government funding going into situations like this where everyone was given help, then maybe..but because there isn't, the only person who should have a say is the mother..pro-choice

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Every child can be put up for adoption. If the girl is stupid enough to get pregnant, she should have to deal with the short term physical consequences.

Obviously only in situations where "stupid enough" is applicable.

[Aggo]

I'm for abortion. I got my GF pregnant when we were both 17. She had an abortion. If she hadn't a couple of dumbfuck 17 year olds would have tried to raise a baby. We weren't in love, we weren't gonna stay together long term, we weren't responsible. If we had that kid its quality of life would have been shit. My quality of life would have been shit. Hers would have, the burden would have spread to our parents and relatives and their quality of life would have suffered.

Could all of that have been prevented, sure. But like I said, we were stupid and irresponsible. I'm pro choice cuz If other people fuck up and have their backs against the wall, is it better to stir up a cluster of cells or is it better to ruin a string of lives?

[Hubert Cumberdale]

I'm for abortion. I got my GF pregnant when we were both 17. She had an abortion. If she hadn't a couple of dumbfuck 17 year olds would have tried to raise a baby. We weren't in love, we weren't gonna stay together long term, we weren't responsible. If we had that kid its quality of life would have been shit. My quality of life would have been shit. Hers would have, the burden would have spread to our parents and relatives and their quality of life would have suffered.

Could all of that have been prevented, sure. But like I said, we were stupid and irresponsible. I'm pro choice cuz If other people fuck up and have their backs against the wall, is it better to stir up a cluster of cells or is it better to ruin a string of lives?

Adoption.

[Iron Mike]

A part of me believes in a woman's right to do as she sees fit with her own body. Another part of me is put off by the waste of human life. I've seen videos of aborted fetuses who were still alive when pulled out and it is not pretty. It looks like murder to be quite frank, because you can see its already developed to a stage where it has all the basic body parts that every human has (in the videos I've seen). At the same time, there also seems to be a double standard in the "pro choice" pathos. If a man doesn't want to have a kid and walks out of that kid's life, he's known as a deadbeat. If a woman doesn't want to have a kid, she can have an abortion and be labeled "pro choice." I don't think the fact that a woman carries a child in her body makes the child more hers than the father's. But when it comes to abortion, she has the absolute right even if the would-be father objects to the abortion of a child that is just as much his (because its her body). Still, it is a very difficult question because there are legitimate cases in which abortion is justified..as in when it presents a medical danger to the mother and might kill her or, perhaps, when she has been raped.

[Wigsplit]

Very good case sir.

[Manhattan]

Couldn't of said that much better^. I personally am for abortions....To a certain extent. I get when some people have abortions. There are times where they do seem necessary. However, there are so many incompetent and irresponsible people out there. The women who have had 2+ abortions or the idiots who don't wear condoms/can't even get Plan B and complain when the chick is pregnant. If your not going to rubber up...don't be mad when you find out she's pregnant.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

I don't think the fact that a woman carries a child in her body makes the child more hers than the father's.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[ViTRiOL]

Every child can be put up for adoption. If the girl is stupid enough to get pregnant, she should have to deal with the short term physical consequences.

Obviously only in situations where "stupid enough" is applicable.

So if a girl is "stupid enough" to get raped and impregnated, she should have to go through the horrendously body-shattering process of childbirth and give away her child? I don't think you understand pregnancy really, EtH. Everything that goes with it isn't "short term physical consequences", let alone physical; what about post-natal depression? My mum was dangerously low for five years and nearly took her own life.

That's a tangent. I think abortion should be a choice made by the bearer of the pregnancy and the bearer alone. Fetuses/zygotes don't have a CNS or any sort of consciousness so if the retarded pro-lifers saw sense and pertained to scientific proof then the whole "crisis" would be a lot more obsolete.

---------- Post added at 01:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 AM ----------

And true, there is a distinct biological bias towards the female in terms of pregnancies. But the truth is, physically they are responsible. In no way does a man have any physical effects from the pregnancy, perhaps to an extent mentally and a certain amount of sentimentality attached to it. In most circumstances, the individuals involved rationalise the situation and make a decision: Barring that though, I feel that the female should be the one making the final decision as they are the prime bearers of all the physical and mental consequences that go along with an unwanted pregnancy.

[Student]

Pro Life Except In Cases Where The Fetus Becomes A Danger To The Women's Heath, Conceived By Rape Or Incest, Damaged Fetus Or Where Financially And Mentally They Cannot Take Care Of The Baby. Psych Tests / Proof Of Financial Burden Would Have To Be Shown.

[ViTRiOL]

Pro Life Except In Cases Where The Fetus Becomes A Danger To The Women's Heath, Conceived By Rape Or Incest, Damaged Fetus Or Where Financially And Mentally They Cannot Take Care Of The Baby. Psych Tests / Proof Of Financial Burden Would Have To Be Shown.

You do realise that your case pretty much makes you pro-choice?

You listed all of the valid reasons why abortion should be an option. Do you even logic bro?

[Student]

You do realise that your case pretty much makes you pro-choice?

You listed all of the valid reasons why abortion should be an option. Do you even logic bro?
I'm In The Middle But I Tend To Lean Towards Pro Life, If All Of Those Options Aren't Meant I Think They Should Keep It.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

So if a girl is "stupid enough" to get raped and impregnated, she should have to go through the horrendously body-shattering process of childbirth and give away her child?

Before flying off the handle, read the "Only in cases where stupid enough is applicable". There's very few cases where the sentence "stupid enough to get raped works out.

I don't think you understand pregnancy really, EtH. Everything that goes with it isn't "short term physical consequences", let alone physical; what about post-natal depression? My mum was dangerously low for five years and nearly took her own life.

I'm AGAINST depression. Depression is a state of quitting. Allowing yourself to wallow. I can absolutely guarantee you that I will never be depressed in my entire life. I literally don't understand it though so I try to avoid judgement.

But that aside, I don't think you understand what post-natal depression is. A lot of the time it's a detachment from your child, not the physical act of pregnancy. If someone straight up doesn't want their child, put it up for adoption, thats what my point is. The physical effects are VERY rarely long lasting.

That's a tangent. I think abortion should be a choice made by the bearer of the pregnancy and the bearer alone. Fetuses/zygotes don't have a CNS or any sort of consciousness so if the retarded pro-lifers saw sense and pertained to scientific proof then the whole "crisis" would be a lot more obsolete.

So a father has absolutely no right in the birth of his child? I couldn't be more against that. The fact that 10 years ago judges ruled in custody cases of the mothers over the father based on some absolutely mythological idea that the word maternal overpowers paternal is utterly disgusting to me.

And true, there is a distinct biological bias towards the female in terms of pregnancies. But the truth is, physically they are responsible. In no way does a man have any physical effects from the pregnancy, perhaps to an extent mentally and a certain amount of sentimentality attached to it. In most circumstances, the individuals involved rationalise the situation and make a decision: Barring that though, I feel that the female should be the one making the final decision as they are the prime bearers of all the physical and mental consequences that go along with an unwanted pregnancy.

The physical effects in 2014 aren't major. It's 9 months of things being fairly shit, but then it's over and done with. The instinctive and mental bond completely trashes the physical one.

If I want a child, and the girl that's pregnant aborts it without us ever coming to some sort of agreement (because it's her 'right'), that imo should be complete fair grounds to knock a bitch the fuck out.

[Louie Dawgs]

Generally against.

I would put it this way, my problem is the question of when something is a person. Is a being that can breathe a person? Is a being that can feel pain a person? Is a being with a working heart a person? At what point does something change from being a biological mass to being an actual person??

I dont' fucking know, so I am generally against abortion. I say generally because there is a time aspect involved. I don't think that an egg with sperm attached is a person, there does have to be some form of "human-ness", as in they actually have to resemble a person and have some functioning organs to be considered. I am alright with abortion extremely early in the process, but I would never support late term or partial birth abortion.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

I'm going to go out and say that the "pain" thing isn't really relevant. Babies bang their head hard, and if you make them laugh quick enough they forget that pain's even supposed to be resonating. A child of a pre-birth level of conciousness isn't able to have the awareness of pain. It's basically like claiming someone is hurting a tree by cutting it down.

[ViTRiOL]

I'm AGAINST depression. Depression is a state of quitting. Allowing yourself to wallow. I can absolutely guarantee you that I will never be depressed in my entire life. I literally don't understand it though so I try to avoid judgement.

But that aside, I don't think you understand what post-natal depression is. A lot of the time it's a detachment from your child, not the physical act of pregnancy. If someone straight up doesn't want their child, put it up for adoption, thats what my point is. The physical effects are VERY rarely long lasting.


Now I don't think you understand depression either. Seeing as depression can be a mood disorder (in the form of major depressive disorder, manic depression etc.) and has been clinically proven and published within the DSM IV as a mental disorder with biological statistics (low production of serotonin and dopamine, depression of the central nervous system, hormone dysfunction).

You're doing nothing but judge without any real weight behind your overall rebuke. You just simply believe that pregnancy can't physically affect a woman for the rest of her life (which in a lot of cases occurs) and that depression is nothing more than a transient mood-swing? Shit man, you need to read more.


So a father has absolutely no right in the birth of his child? I couldn't be more against that. The fact that 10 years ago judges ruled in custody cases of the mothers over the father based on some absolutely mythological idea that the word maternal overpowers paternal is utterly disgusting to me.


And I never said a father has no right to the birth of a child. I said that the individuals involved in the pregnancy "situation" usually discuss and rationalise, but I still don't think a male has the right to tell a woman to either go through with the childbirth or have the abortion. That's called shirking the physical rights of a human being.

[Enfinite]

^I was gonna say, Depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain, nothing you can do about it. Whereas, weak minded people always feeling pity on themselves rather than bucking the fuck up, is what Dave was referring to.

[ViTRiOL]

Keynote:

Postnatal depression (Postpartum depression) is a combination of prenatal neuroses, an influx and thus imbalance of hormones combined with an Oxycontin and vitamin deficit.

I think Dave is solid in his views but he has very little empathy.

Oh shit, I was expecting empathy from EtH...

---------- Post added at 04:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 AM ----------

^I was gonna say, Depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain, nothing you can do about it. Whereas, weak minded people always feeling pity on themselves rather than bucking the fuck up, is what Dave was referring to.

I don't think he distinguished between them. Wallowing isn't in the same ballpark as depression.

---------- Post added at 04:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 AM ----------

Overall though, this argument is quite redundant.

A lot of the legislation behind this is written by men who are never going to have to make this decision. Regarding abortion, why should any of us have an opinion on it? It's not our decision and our views shouldn't affect the decisions or, darkly, the mandatory procedure that'll have to take place if this invasive pontificating continues.

I don't like to make decisions about other people's uteri so henceforth pro-choice is literally the only way to go unless you're some sort of Nazified bigot.

[Jesse Pinkman]

depression isn't something you can consciously avoid..as stated earlier its a genetic deficiency..where as always feeling sad for yourself borderlines egotistical/HPD in my opinion


the problem with moral situations like abortion, is everyone has a stance until it happens to them or directly affects them..end of the day, its not the doctor, mother, teacher, politician, ect. getting the treatment done - its the girl/woman..it should be her choice

[IV]

I think it's very easy for men to comment on it either way. If a woman get's pregnant from a drunken mistake, yes that's her own fault but a baby shouldn't be seen as a punishment for a mistake. The man in that situation would never have to feel anything, he'd just go home and high five his friends that he got laid.

But seriously most women wouldn't know how they felt about it until it happened. Some people might be convinced that they'd get rid of it because it's never happened to them, but if it did happen they might not be able to.. i've seen that happen. And I've also seen people who don't agree with abortion end up getting an abortion because of their current situation.

I think our lives get restricted enough without people telling women that they have to have a child.

---------- Post added at 12:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 PM ----------

And Dave I agree with your comment about the father rights too. If a girl aborts a child that the guy wants then that isn't fair at all. But as far as the physical thing, it's not just that, it's not 9 months of things being shit.. it's what the woman could have been doing in those 9 months to build her planned future, and the fact they're never going to be able to have the same life again, when 9 out of 10 times the man's life doesn't really change at all. He will still continue on his career path and MOST OF THE TIME (yes i understand there's exceptions to everything) it's the woman who gives her life up to raise a child.

[Aggo]

http://i.imgur.com/WdRsuu3.jpg

[ViTRiOL]

I think it's very easy for men to comment on it either way.

Thus why this debate is so magnanimously redundant.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Now I don't think you understand depression either. Seeing as depression can be a mood disorder (in the form of major depressive disorder, manic depression etc.) and has been clinically proven and published within the DSM IV as a mental disorder with biological statistics (low production of serotonin and dopamine, depression of the central nervous system, hormone dysfunction).

You're doing nothing but judge without any real weight behind your overall rebuke. You just simply believe that pregnancy can't physically affect a woman for the rest of her life (which in a lot of cases occurs) and that depression is nothing more than a transient mood-swing? Shit man, you need to read more.



And I never said a father has no right to the birth of a child. I said that the individuals involved in the pregnancy "situation" usually discuss and rationalise, but I still don't think a male has the right to tell a woman to either go through with the childbirth or have the abortion. That's called shirking the physical rights of a human being.

Why do you keep flying off the handle about things I clearly stated?

This time I word for word said "I literally dont understand depression" and you wrote a paragraph to prove I understand it?

---------- Post added at 09:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 AM ----------

I think it's very easy for men to comment on it either way. If a woman get's pregnant from a drunken mistake, yes that's her own fault but a baby shouldn't be seen as a punishment for a mistake. The man in that situation would never have to feel anything, he'd just go home and high five his friends that he got laid.

Okay, so the woman gets an abortion? Fuck that disgusting cunt is my reply to that. So she just never finds the guy and tells him she's pregnant with his baby? That's fucking ridiculous and she deserves anything bad that falls upon her.

I think our lives get restricted enough without people telling women that they have to have a child.

No one tells them they need to have unprotected sex.

And Dave I agree with your comment about the father rights too. If a girl aborts a child that the guy wants then that isn't fair at all. But as far as the physical thing, it's not just that, it's not 9 months of things being shit.. it's what the woman could have been doing in those 9 months to build her planned future, and the fact they're never going to be able to have the same life again, when 9 out of 10 times the man's life doesn't really change at all. He will still continue on his career path and MOST OF THE TIME (yes i understand there's exceptions to everything) it's the woman who gives her life up to raise a child.

To be honest, I just don't really understand "unexpected pregnancy". From a guy's perspective, you fuck a girl without a johnny on then you're completely shitting yourself until she tells you it's all clear (by yucky girl stiff methods). Sure you've got that ridiculously low percentage of condoms not working.

But all in all, adoption is still there. That's the main thing I'm pushing. This "the child's quality of life" stuff is the biggest cop out ever. Everyone on the planet is under this illusion that they had a hard upbringing. Some of them actually will be too, and it didn't stop them enjoying life and becoming what they wanted to. If you aren't ready, responsible enough, or just straight up don't want a child, then put it up for adoption. To claim that 9 months out of your life is the biggest set back of all time is ridiculous. A broken leg would keep you away from whatever it is you need to be at for more time. And that's not to mention that it's 9 months for YOUR mistake you know.

[ViTRiOL]

I realise that abortion is still illegal in Ireland but due to the religious residual that still plagues the country, not for any reasons regarding human rights matters. Sexual protection isn't taught nor encouraged in education either so it's still a Catholic dogfight over there. I'm bearing this in mind.

Also Dave, you said you're opposed to depression and that it is simply a state of wallowing or self-pity. That was completely false hence why I explained the difference between depression and pitying oneself.

---------- Post added at 03:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

Taking into account the hypothetical upbringing of the child of an unwanted pregnancy isn't a cop-out, it's far less shortsighted that what you are proposing. You're making it sound as if adoption is a simple procedure but it isn't. There are so many abandoned children in the world stuck in orphanages and fostering homes, I believe that adopting a child is probably a more proficient action to take over conceiving a child yet on top of that, I believe abortion is a more proficient action to take over an adoption scenario regarding an unwanted pregnancy.

I think you have a lot of bias and a distinct lack of empathy. My philosophy is that we think about the rights of the conscious individual first and foremost alongside the potential sociological factors a child may be affected by in a life that has orphanhood as its foundation.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

I realise that abortion is still illegal in Ireland but due to the religious residual that still plagues the country, not for any reasons regarding human rights matters. Sexual protection isn't taught nor encouraged in education either so it's still a Catholic dogfight over there. I'm bearing this in mind.

Also Dave, you said you're opposed to depression and that it is simply a state of wallowing or self-pity. That was completely false hence why I explained the difference between depression and pitying oneself.

Abortion is illegal but sexual education is in no way hindered by Catholicism. The country is VERY lowly ran by religion these days.

I don't understand depression though. It's like someone speaking to me in Swahili. I don't get how you can't just do something you enjoy to change things around.

Taking into account the hypothetical upbringing of the child of an unwanted pregnancy isn't a cop-out, it's far less shortsighted that what you are proposing. You're making it sound as if adoption is a simple procedure but it isn't. There are so many abandoned children in the world stuck in orphanages and fostering homes, I believe that adopting a child is probably a more proficient action to take over conceiving a child yet on top of that, I believe abortion is a more proficient action to take over an adoption scenario regarding an unwanted pregnancy.

And are the well cared for children in orphanages not worth being born? Is the life of a child really as expendable as "Yeah, adoptions a bit of an annoying process, fuck it, who cares about the child". Getting pregnant, or getting someone pregnant, is a fairly huge mistake to make. In my opinion, the consequences of such a mistake should be having to find a suitable way for the child to be cared for, and if that's not from you then it should be from adoption.

I think you have a lot of bias and a distinct lack of empathy. My philosophy is that we think about the rights of the conscious individual first and foremost alongside the potential sociological factors a child may be affected by in a life that has orphanhood as its foundation.

I don't have empathy. Why would I have empathy for someone who has sex and as a result gets pregnant? I'm omitting cases of rape or serious medical concerns deliberately as they bring up much clearer options. But if you're just too selfish to at least sort out care for a child, whom will have an excellent chance of enjoying their life, then you shouldn't have the womb to house the child in the first place.

[ViTRiOL]

I feel like both sides of the coin have been thoroughly shafted here.

---------- Post added 07-05-2014 at 12:00 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-04-2014 at 11:58 PM ----------

My auntie told me that my 11 year old cousin came back from school after having sexual education and none of the resources referred to condoms, the pill or any other form of protection. I did say religious residual, Ireland still has a plentiful amount of historical bias in its legislation.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

I feel like both sides of the coin have been thoroughly shafted here.

---------- Post added 07-05-2014 at 12:00 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-04-2014 at 11:58 PM ----------

My auntie told me that my 11 year old cousin came back from school after having sexual education and none of the resources referred to condoms, the pill or any other form of protection. I did say religious residual, Ireland still has a plentiful amount of historical bias in its legislation.

Who doesn't know about johnnies or the pill though? Like how do you not make a condom joke the first time you buy a packet of Johnny Onion Rings? Or how do you not burst out laughing when someone the other side of class asks if anyone's got a rubber?

[ViTRiOL]

Wrap that Mother Fuck wit LATEX or dat bitch finna have your PAY CHEQUES

Or in your case, a mini Milky Way wrapper.

[Denton]

Fuck Religion. If women want abortions thats none of our business.

[ViTRiOL]

Fuck Religion. If women want abortions thats none of our business.

Thank you.