Should Mods VP be greater than 4?

[Letum]

Simple, Should Mods have more VP than FVC?

Yes?

No?

[Phil Banks]

hmmmm i always thought it was 2high but if rule voting against you led to this im not gonna vote b/c even though me an him dont always see eye to eye hes prolly one of the fairest here an always gives good votes.....

[Letum]

^reasoning don't matter :)

ahaa Its just a yes or no poll

[Askari]

Yes, mods are mods for a reason; they become staff because they're seen as having better and fairer judgement - in battles particularly - than the rest of the site; they've served their time here and proven that they are capable and deserving of such influence.

[Óðinn]

Yes, mods are mods for a reason; they become staff because they're seen as having better and fairer judgement - in battles particularly - than the rest of the site; they've served their time here and proven that they are capable and deserving of such influence.

^^Exactly what Askari just said... :high:

[Phe]

hmmmm i always thought it was 2high but if rule voting against you led to this im not gonna vote b/c even though me an him dont always see eye to eye hes prolly one of the fairest here an always gives good votes.....

Fair - sure.. Perfect - not at all.. I've a few voting errors that i look back on and say oops..

---------- Post added at 04:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 AM ----------

My VP should be 4 or 5.. I hate you all equally..

[Óðinn]

My VP should be 4 or 5.. I hate you all equally..

You're FVC yours IS 4....that's as high as it goes for FVC, an that's as high as it WILL go :high: ;)

[IV]

Yes, mods are mods for a reason; they become staff because they're seen as having better and fairer judgement - in battles particularly - than the rest of the site; they've served their time here and proven that they are capable and deserving of such influence.

Normally I agree with you, but what about if a moderator had 0VP during their whole time on letsbeef and then became a mod so got 6VP? Because its happened

[Askari]

Normally I agree with you, but what about if a moderator had 0VP during their whole time on letsbeef and then became a mod so got 6VP? Because its happened

IMO they shouldn't be mods if they've ever been viewed as incompetent voters. They should remain 0VP unless they can prove they deserve otherwise over time, but any history of unfair voting/cheating/whatever should mean zero chance of becoming staff.

[Letum]

I dont think ones opinion should be drastically higher than anothers. Yes Mods are good voters but so are a lot of other voters on this site. When all voting comes down to opinion I find it unfair to put so much wieght on what someone thinks.

[Askari]

I dont think ones opinion should be drastically higher than anothers. Yes Mods are good voters but so are a lot of other voters on this site. When all voting comes down to opinion I find it unfair to put so much wieght on what someone thinks.

But mods don't always agree with each other; they're there as they're viewed as unbiased and judge based on the technical aspects of the verses and - of course - personal preference comes into it to an extent; two mods might vote for you while another two vote for your opponent. If 3 or 4 mods vote on your battle and all vote the same way then you can deduct that the person with the votes had the better verse.

The issue is someone/some groups of buddy's can be voting stupidly and for those they're cool with; if we have no evidence we can't delete the votes or lower vp's (without a clearly recurring pattern at least), so often the mod vote is exercised in making sure that votes reflect verses rather than popularity. I can guarantee most of yourself and the other active respectable heads have avoided L's due to mods dropping fair and unbiased votes. They have a higher VP because - in many cases - they have to.

RULE, myself, AfterThought, Just C, Phil, Jason etc are all in our positions - with higher VP's - because we've earned the right to have more influence in battles through experience and from proving over time that our votes are consistently fair, educated and technically based as far as possible (just like FVC, but with the credentials to merit full staff position). Preference only comes in when two verses are very technically sound and matched on all levels; it's a very small proportion of final decisions.

[J u s T C]

pretty much everything Askari said

[Askari]

PS. Apologies for rambling, I'm nursing a come down after finishing exams and celebrating for a solid 24 hours. Life is a struggle today.

[RULE]

But mods don't always agree with each other; they're there as they're viewed as unbiased and judge based on the technical aspects of the verses and - of course - personal preference comes into it to an extent; two mods might vote for you while another two vote for your opponent. If 3 or 4 mods vote on your battle and all vote the same way then you can deduct that the person with the votes had the better verse.

The issue is someone/some groups of buddy's can be voting stupidly and for those they're cool with; if we have no evidence we can't delete the votes or lower vp's (without a clearly recurring pattern at least), so often the mod vote is exercised in making sure that votes reflect verses rather than popularity. I can guarantee most of yourself and the other active respectable heads have avoided L's due to mods dropping fair and unbiased votes. They have a higher VP because - in many cases - they have to.

RULE, myself, AfterThought, Just C, Phil, Jason etc are all in our positions - with higher VP's - because we've earned the right to have more influence in battles through experience and from proving over time that our votes are consistently fair, educated and technically based as far as possible (just like FVC, but with the credentials to merit full staff position). Preference only comes in when two verses are very technically sound and matched on all levels; it's a very small proportion of final decisions.

Fully agree.

[J u s T C]

The reason we have such a high VP [Which Askari already touched on earlier] Is because we have to deal with hate votes and self voters on your battles/reverse losses ect and sometimes the only way to get around that is by voting our selves with a higher vp.

Example

Say if I go to reverse a loss into a win on someone's battle, sometimes the system will only allow for the battle to be re opened for votes deleting all the votes that brought about the initial loss [clean slate] Since I'm trying to make sure the loss gets turned into a win for the other party I have to vote then with my higher VP to go some way to assuring it gets turned into a win in case 1 or more people don't read my comment then vote for the other person who's win I am trying to reverse whilst its still open for votes

[IV]

I also remember Phil banks wanted go text VP lowered (I think)

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Askari, alright, you picked a decent punch of voters there. But that's a pretty biased way to look at it. Wigsplit, Student, Mindless, X, Pugz etc. There guys aren't really known for being dope battlers, and don't really have too much top level experience with text battling. So why was their opinions held in higher regard than, again I'll use myself for example. Mods arent taken on because they are good at text battling or know how to vote well. They are taken on as helpful and productive trustworthy members of the site.

[RULE]

Askari, alright, you picked a decent punch of voters there. But that's a pretty biased way to look at it. Wigsplit, Student, Mindless, X, Pugz etc. There guys aren't really known for being dope battlers, and don't really have too much top level experience with text battling. So why was their opinions held in higher regard than, again I'll use myself for example. Mods arent taken on because they are good at text battling or know how to vote well. They are taken on as helpful and productive trustworthy members of the site.


Wiggy & student arent staff now and Pugz & X have lowered VP.

[Askari]

Wiggy & student arent staff now and Pugz & X have lowered VP.

This ^^^^

[Hubert Cumberdale]

What has changed in the last year since Wig was a mod? Mods have ALWAYS had higher VP, and mods have NEVER been recruited on skill level, battling experience or knowledge. The only reason the current mod team is better is because we went through a phase of "Only Classick members become staff" lmao. How about this. A mod could be inactive in battling for years, but stay helping out the site in other ways. If they then decide to vote on something, even though they are rusty in all aspects of battling, their judgement is still ranked higher than others? Having a green name doesnt make your opinion any more valid than someone elses. Everyone should have quite a high VP, and the only realy changes should be deductions to VP.

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------

The reason we have such a high VP [Which Askari already touched on earlier] Is because we have to deal with hate votes and self voters on your battles/reverse losses ect and sometimes the only way to get around that is by voting our selves with a higher vp.

Example

Say if I go to reverse a loss into a win on someone's battle, sometimes the system will only allow for the battle to be re opened for votes deleting all the votes that brought about the initial loss [clean slate] Since I'm trying to make sure the loss gets turned into a win for the other party I have to vote then with my higher VP to go some way to assuring it gets turned into a win in case 1 or more people don't read my comment then vote for the other person who's win I am trying to reverse whilst its still open for votes

Can't you just delete the votes for the offending guy?

And that's not what we're talking about anyways. That's more of a system error. We're talking about actual judgement in battling.

[J u s T C]

we also have to keep the offending voters votes for future reference. thats another situation a higher vp is needed.

[BENSON THA GREAT]

A vote should count for one vote.. Fuck who u are that dont make sense

[NOBLE]

I was the one who encouraged Unyqe to post this thread just to see what a public poll would say. I can see certain points that Askari and Just C has made, but I can also see where Jason and others are coming from as well. The only thing I can promise right now is we will deliberate it further in the staff lounge and try to come up with some solution.

[TradeMarked]

i voted yes - because - Fvc dont have as much responsibility has a Mod or Admin. all they have to do is vote fairly. as to Mods & Admins they have more to lose if they bullshit vote... so yes i think Mods & Admins should have higher Vp

[Rounin]

To be honest, I think a vp of 6-8 for one person is somewhat unnecessary. Why do Mods need that much power? I think that FVC and Mods should both have the same voting power because they both have obviously shown their ability to not only vote well but have shown the depth of knowledge that they as an individual know about rap/battle rap etc. Though unlikely it is entirely possible that someone in FVC might know more about rap than a Mod. Better to just put them all at a leveled field that is still higher than the general populace. That's just my take on it.

[Cee Davis]

shouldent be over 0 imo......

[Hubert Cumberdale]

I can only say as someone receiving a vote. I asked both RULE and Erupt to rate my verse before it came out. Both had similar replies to it, but I dont judge one over the other. Both are respected in battling, and I accept both of their opinion the same wat. RULE's opinion counts more so than Erupt's, but why? Because someone deemed him good enough to be a mod?

No mod's opinion is more important than someone else's.

[Phe]

i voted yes - because - Fvc dont have as much responsibility has a Mod or Admin. all they have to do is vote fairly. as to Mods & Admins they have more to lose if they bullshit vote... so yes i think Mods & Admins should have higher Vp

You're right FVC dont have much responsibilities, FVC responsibilities are to vote on every battle that is dropped in their thread and there suppose to drop fair votes along with fair ratings and accurate expos where as a mods responsibilities dont even revolve around voting at all.. A mods job has nothing to do with voting while a FVC member's job revolves solely around voting..

[TradeMarked]

i since a bit of sarcasm in that post...

---------- Post added at 03:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 AM ----------

To be honest, I think a vp of 6-8 for one person is somewhat unnecessary. Why do Mods need that much power? I think that FVC and Mods should both have the same voting power because they both have obviously shown their ability to not only vote well but have shown the depth of knowledge that they as an individual know about rap/battle rap etc. Though unlikely it is entirely possible that someone in FVC might know more about rap than a Mod. Better to just put them all at a leveled field that is still higher than the general populace. That's just my take on it.



okay... then why not make everyones vp that high ?? alot of artist here know about rap & battle rap just as much as a mod admin or fvc member. an alot of artist on here votes the exact same way as the fvc mods an admins.....But i guess here its all about ur title.

[Askari]

I can only say as someone receiving a vote. I asked both RULE and Erupt to rate my verse before it came out. Both had similar replies to it, but I dont judge one over the other. Both are respected in battling, and I accept both of their opinion the same wat. RULE's opinion counts more so than Erupt's, but why? Because someone deemed him good enough to be a mod?

No mod's opinion is more important than someone else's.

By that last statement everyone should have the same VP; if that was the case then mods would have next to no power in fixing battle, we can't just overturn a judgement because we think it's clearly wrong without evidence of fuckery or a clear 10-1 idiot vote or w/e, all we can do is drop our weighted vote to bring some balance and ensure a fair outcome. Us dropping our vote is a stop guard to ensure a fair battle.

I agree, however, that not all mods are as qualified voters as others. Mod VP should not be exempt from review. Maybe certain mods - champions, FVC, active battlers within the last year - should hold the 6VP as they clearly have a more technical grasp and have proved deserving of a higher VP; if there are any text battles that require mod vote/intervention these mods are first point of call.

Just spit balling, but yeah, I concede you do have a point there.

[IV]

Despite it sounding like I was hating at the beginning, mods NEED higher VP for the EXACT REASONS Askari has outlined.

Their votes need to be weighed, not all battles get checked, a bunch of bullshit voters that have gone unseen this far that could still have 2 VP. If a mod drop a fair vote at the beginning of the battle it cancels out the bullshit votes about to happen.

What they need to really concentrate on is how they're going to apply VP in the tournaments. At the moment mods have very little say on who actually wins, and the votes are anonymous so people can't even let a mod know about shady voting.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

By that last statement everyone should have the same VP; if that was the case then mods would have next to no power in fixing battle, we can't just overturn a judgement because we think it's clearly wrong without evidence of fuckery or a clear 10-1 idiot vote or w/e, all we can do is drop our weighted vote to bring some balance and ensure a fair outcome. Us dropping our vote is a stop guard to ensure a fair battle.

I agree, however, that not all mods are as qualified voters as others. Mod VP should not be exempt from review. Maybe certain mods - champions, FVC, active battlers within the last year - should hold the 6VP as they clearly have a more technical grasp and have proved deserving of a higher VP; if there are any text battles that require mod vote/intervention these mods are first point of call.

Just spit balling, but yeah, I concede you do have a point there.

So the reason a mod should have higher VP, is to single handedly decide the outcome of a battle they feel is "wrong"? In that case, why isn't everyones VP the same? You guys cant get at EVERY robbery.

I dont feel anyone should be bumped up or anything based on status. Champions, staff etc (which FVC being an obvious exception). I think the only real point is the "active battlers within the last year". People who show they can vote educatedly, using expos which are helpful and show what they know their shit. Also they'd have to vote a lot.

[Askari]

Dave they can correct battles that've received complaints or that are clearly wrong. You, me, any respectable member of this site can judge when a battle's outcome clearly does not reflect verses. If mods never had a higher VP the job would simply banning/giving infractions to people when clear evidence is presented; battles would subsequently be out of our control based on questionable voting and many battles would wind up with ridiculous outcomes because we can't just delete or lower VP's on a hunch; only weigh in with our fair and educated opinion.

I stand by my original view; although I can see you do have a point, I personally feel like mods need to have higher VP. Mod position is essentially FVC but with wider influence, a position which respected staff and members alike feel mods have earned. If they don't deserve a higher VP then IMO they aren't considered responsible or fair enough to merit a mod post. We're supposed to be entirely impartial, experienced and qualified in all aspects of our respective fields of the site, that's why up until now our votes have been weighted this much and never proven problematic before.

In all honesty I don't understand why it's become such a central and debated topic; it's been the format for years now and there have never been issues previous. Excuse me if that seems ignorant.

[Phe]

I'm bout to go through all the open text battles just to see how many mod votes there are..

[Askari]

I'm bout to go through all the open text battles just to see how many mod votes there are..

We vote on any battle we're asked to, just like FVC.

[Phe]

We vote on any battle we're asked to, just like FVC.

Yall need a thread of your own so people can drop links in that bitch and drop your vote on all the RD 3 battles when they open.. lol

[RULE]

Yall need a thread of your own so people can drop links in that bitch and drop your vote on all the RD 3 battles when they open.. lol

We do. Its called a inbox.

[Phe]

We do. Its called a inbox.

No not a thread in your inbox, a thread in the forums.. And i see you voted on the poll since there is a total of 7 votes for yes :D...

[TheAnonP]

they need to make my VP 8...it's a fact that whoever i vote for wins :cool:

[Hubert Cumberdale]

To be fair Ask, I don't know the shit with changing battles etc so I won't really comment on it. I imagine if you really needed a battle to be fixed, you could quicky get at one or two people on chat.

And to be honest, I vote on near enough anything I'm asked to. I'll generally tell the person "Don't send links to anyone else. It's seen as asking someone to vote for you but it's against the rules. I'll tell you if you suck, so don't worry about me :D". Are people allowed to ask FVC members to vote in chat or anything like that?

[Student]

The Only Problem With This Discussion Is We Don't Exactly Know How The Voting System Actually Works So We Really Can't Deduce What VP Should Be For A Staff/FVC Member vs. A Regular Member. Unless I'm The Only One Out Of The Loop...
& If I Am, Why Don't You Guys Make Staff Members Have 3VP, Fair Voters Club Members 2VP And Everyone Else Have 1VP? Obviously Stupid Voters Get 0VP Too. It Just Makes More Sense For Have The FVC Vote Count For Two Regular Votes And A Staff Vote To Count For 3 (Since They're More Fair And Shouldn't Be A Moderator On A Rap Battle Website If They Don't Know How To Judge Rap (Audio & Text).

[Rounin]

No not a thread in your inbox, a thread in the forums.. And i see you voted on the poll since there is a total of 7 votes for yes :D...

Got em lmfao. Shit made me laugh

[J u s T C]

current vp
6
4
2

stu

[Rounin]

The Only Problem With This Discussion Is We Don't Exactly Know How The Voting System Actually Works So We Really Can't Deduce What VP Should Be For A Staff/FVC Member vs. A Regular Member. Unless I'm The Only One Out Of The Loop...
& If I Am, Why Don't You Guys Make Staff Members Have 3VP, Fair Voters Club Members 2VP And Everyone Else Have 1VP? Obviously Stupid Voters Get 0VP Too. It Just Makes More Sense For Have The FVC Vote Count For Two Regular Votes And A Staff Vote To Count For 3 (Since They're More Fair And Shouldn't Be A Moderator On A Rap Battle Website If They Don't Know How To Judge Rap (Audio & Text).

I actually pondered that same solution multiple times but Askari brings the most valid point that Mods probably have to sometimes counterbalance bs votes (which there a shit ton of) which I think is the ONLY valid reason why Mods should have such a
High vp in the first place

SupremeKnowledge Im not saying that Mods and EVRYONe should have the same VP, only Mods and FVC. The way I see it, FBC members are like semi mods that are open spots for any member that shows their proficiency in voting as opposed to being mod that deals with a bunch of other aspects and qualifications other than voting ability. FVC members have basically shown just as much qualification in the voting aspect of being a mod and as such should be given the same SAME votin power

[J u s T C]

if an fvc wants the same vp as a mod they can come to me w/vote links for audio

[Rounin]

if an fvc wants the same vp as a mod they can come to me w/vote links for audio

What?

[J u s T C]

lol is that not clear?

if an fvc MEMBER*

[TradeMarked]

What?

haha

[Rounin]

lol is that not clear?

if an fvc MEMBER*

How do audio links and Vp correlate is what I'm askin

[J u s T C]

links to battles youve voted on.. lol

---------- Post added at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 PM ----------

so i can judge n edit vp

[Rounin]

You can edit VP's for an individual person on individual battles? Just C

[J u s T C]

yeah.

[Rounin]

Just C I get ya but I think the thread is progressively pushing for total Voting Power reform. If I could summarize it in the the shortest way possible basically both FvC and Mods have shown prowess at voting so both should be given the same voting power.band all members that have shown voting skill should be considered for FVC. However you and Askari totally refuted that with the situational occurrence of hate voting as you stated which makes sense. And when you think of it that's melding the Mod and FVC jobs together.

[skinEC~RRR~]

i think the mods role should be more of monitoring the votes..like let it be know that GB FV counts for shit, there should be a mod precence in every battle to encourage and make sure all votes are reasonable and for the ones that have the in depth and informative expo's those count for 2-

if u just say something like..Mrgoodness -nice punches and delivry, his content gave him the edge-skinec had some nice flow ,but not good enough.. THAT IS 1 VOTE,

than after all votes the mod does his vote which counts as 3

[Student]

current vp
6
4
2

stu
Thanks But How Does The Actual Voting System Work?
If VP = Votes Then It Should Work Like This Right?:
Battler 1 = 4 Votes (4VP, 4VP, 1VP, 4VP) = 13VP
Battler 2 = 3 Votes (6VP, 4VP, 4VP) = 14VP
Second Battler Wins. (If They Count As One Vote Per VP).

Also, Does Anyone Know How Points Are Distributed Based On Votes/VP?

[Rounin]

i think the mods role should be more of monitoring the votes..like let it be know that GB FV counts for shit, there should be a mod precence in every battle to encourage and make sure all votes are reasonable and for the ones that have the in depth and informative expo's those count for 2-

if u just say something like..Mrgoodness -nice punches and delivry, his content gave him the edge-skinec had some nice flow ,but not good enough.. THAT IS 1 VOTE,

than after all votes the mod does his vote which counts as 3

Thats what the FVC Moderator is for a.k.a Illokwent

[skinEC~RRR~]

ill has good intentions but he has got to get on his game..we need votes. not these crazy pt stystem bracketology tourneys just to get to be a FV..right now no one votes not a damn one in all the ones ive put in the FV audio thread..so isn't any particpation better than nothing. #15thammendmant! let us vote

[ILLoKWENT]

ill has good intentions but he has got to get on his game..we need votes. not these crazy pt stystem bracketology tourneys just to get to be a FV..right now no one votes not a damn one in all the ones ive put in the FV audio thread..so isn't any particpation better than nothing. #15thammendmant! let us vote

Lol. Fam. noones stopping you from dropping votes.don't worry about how I go about Getting fvc members. That's how I choose to do it.. I'm not gonna go and just decide who should be fvc and sticker in there.. There's more to it than that.. They have to want to put in the workload. Not decide whether to vote on a few battles here and there . Right now I'm getting fvc audio members in place .and it may not be as fast as you would like it but you need to calm down and be patient.my tasks don't revolve around your timetable. What you can do is do what I used to do until you make it in fvc. And that is to set up a voting thread in audio lounge and vote on peeps requests.or practice answering requests in the fvc audio...get proactive. as far as fvgb type voting. I personally don't go lookin for them in battles. Although when I do come across someone dropping the same retarded non expos on more than a few occasions I lower their VP .also I will take care of them if I get a proper complaint wit the link. I don't condone those type of expos and made it clear already. I will however see what can be done about automatically deleting non expo Ed votes pre emptively.