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  #1  
Unread 03-20-2010, 08:57 PM
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,315
Mentioned: 435 Post(s)
Tagged: 36 Thread(s)
Estimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.34/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.34/10 stars
Ranked Text Record
282 Won / 5 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
53 Won / 0 Lost
Default Forum Advertising

Jason already brought up this issue ..... but the thread got lost before it could be properly enforced so lets clear this shit up once and for all

O.K ..... Everybody who regularly uses the forums are aware of the rules on advertisng your battles ... You all know it's against the rules to send a link by private message or drop a link on peoples profiles because it singles out a specific person that will 9 times outta 10 feel obliged to vote for you ... especially taking into account the fact people only pm the type of person who will vote for them if they feel there's a chance of a return vote.... But advertising battles can't be competely outlawed because plenty of battles are genuinly slept on due to the fact people can't always reply straight away ... so the ONLY place you can advertise and leave a link to your battle is the forums ... because it's aimed at a wide range of people so hopefuly reduces the risk of biased votes...

but here's the issue that needs to be addressed

A lot of people make their advertising thread but leave a comment along the lines of

"fair votes will be returned"

Some of the people who make these threads may have the best intentions and are only offering the chance to give somebody else's slept on battle the chance to get some votes .... but .... if this is acceptable all it does is offer a way for people to keep on riding for votes and flaunt the rules.

obviously this needs to be taken care of

So i'm gonna sticky this and just to be fair the first time i see somebody leave a "fair votes will be returned" comment on a battle thread i'll link them to this .... but if it happens again you will receive infraction points which will end up in an automatic ban if the problem persists

don't be too worried if your names on this list ... it's just so i can keep track of who's aware of the rule ... so it can't be used as an excuse

BEEN WARNED

hektic
Iron Thought
~KiNg KrAzY~
Jack-O-Lantern
Rhyme Reaper
-Dru-
The Real Deal
Rican
Ohs
shake-spear
Orthadox/king cash
Victimize
ImJusStyliN
Chemist
ReKnow/Efficient
SPITZ-FIYAH
DRUG
pulse
stephen
god_complex/poet~laurate
muhammed ali
MerkDyou
__________________
.




Timeless ... so age don't count in the booth
When ya flow stay submerged in the fountain of youth
- Rakim


Quote:
Originally Posted by Just € View Post
Let me exPLAIN N DROP SOME KNOWLEDGE..Since uA's AN ALCOHOLIC!! you can SAY HE's PROPER SCOTTISH cuz he WAKES UP IN THE MORNINGS craving TASTES OF VODKA TONICS in his DAILY POT OF PORRIDGE laced with, BAILYS .... CHOCOLATE ORANGE? *shrugs*
Executive producer of sig quotes :UA




Last edited by UNKNOWN ARTIST; 04-30-2011 at 09:49 AM.
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Unread 03-20-2010, 08:57 PM   #1
 
UNKNOWN ARTIST
Estimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.34/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.34/10 stars
Ranked Text Record
282 Won / 5 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
53 Won / 0 Lost
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Voted: 0 audio / 0 text
Posts: 5,315
Mentioned: 435 Post(s)
Tagged: 36 Thread(s)


Default Forum Advertising

Jason already brought up this issue ..... but the thread got lost before it could be properly enforced so lets clear this shit up once and for all

O.K ..... Everybody who regularly uses the forums are aware of the rules on advertisng your battles ... You all know it's against the rules to send a link by private message or drop a link on peoples profiles because it singles out a specific person that will 9 times outta 10 feel obliged to vote for you ... especially taking into account the fact people only pm the type of person who will vote for them if they feel there's a chance of a return vote.... But advertising battles can't be competely outlawed because plenty of battles are genuinly slept on due to the fact people can't always reply straight away ... so the ONLY place you can advertise and leave a link to your battle is the forums ... because it's aimed at a wide range of people so hopefuly reduces the risk of biased votes...

but here's the issue that needs to be addressed

A lot of people make their advertising thread but leave a comment along the lines of

"fair votes will be returned"

Some of the people who make these threads may have the best intentions and are only offering the chance to give somebody else's slept on battle the chance to get some votes .... but .... if this is acceptable all it does is offer a way for people to keep on riding for votes and flaunt the rules.

obviously this needs to be taken care of

So i'm gonna sticky this and just to be fair the first time i see somebody leave a "fair votes will be returned" comment on a battle thread i'll link them to this .... but if it happens again you will receive infraction points which will end up in an automatic ban if the problem persists

don't be too worried if your names on this list ... it's just so i can keep track of who's aware of the rule ... so it can't be used as an excuse

BEEN WARNED

hektic
Iron Thought
~KiNg KrAzY~
Jack-O-Lantern
Rhyme Reaper
-Dru-
The Real Deal
Rican
Ohs
shake-spear
Orthadox/king cash
Victimize
ImJusStyliN
Chemist
ReKnow/Efficient
SPITZ-FIYAH
DRUG
pulse
stephen
god_complex/poet~laurate
muhammed ali
MerkDyou
__________________
.




Timeless ... so age don't count in the booth
When ya flow stay submerged in the fountain of youth
- Rakim


Quote:
Originally Posted by Just € View Post
Let me exPLAIN N DROP SOME KNOWLEDGE..Since uA's AN ALCOHOLIC!! you can SAY HE's PROPER SCOTTISH cuz he WAKES UP IN THE MORNINGS craving TASTES OF VODKA TONICS in his DAILY POT OF PORRIDGE laced with, BAILYS .... CHOCOLATE ORANGE? *shrugs*
Executive producer of sig quotes :UA




Last edited by UNKNOWN ARTIST; 04-30-2011 at 09:49 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 03-20-2010, 09:23 PM
Step S Step S is on FIRE! 5+ wins in a row!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,705
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Send a message via MSN to Step S
Estimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 stars
Ranked Audio Record
14 Won / 10 Lost
Exclusive Audio Record
2 Won / 0 Lost

Estimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 stars
Ranked Text Record
305 Won / 71 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
15 Won / 5 Lost
Default

Soooooooooooooo. Ohk
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Unread 03-20-2010, 09:23 PM   #2
 
Step S Step S is on FIRE! 5+ wins in a row!
Estimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 stars
Ranked Audio Record
14 Won / 10 Lost
Exclusive Audio Record
2 Won / 0 Lost

Estimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 stars
Ranked Text Record
305 Won / 71 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
15 Won / 5 Lost
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Voted: 135 audio / 2047 text
Posts: 3,705
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)


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Soooooooooooooo. Ohk
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  #3  
Unread 03-20-2010, 09:25 PM
Out Of Orderr
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Ranked Text Record
31 Won / 17 Lost
Default

In 1 ear, out the other...

Nah just playin man, thanks for posting this. I myself can't deny i have used the phrase "Fairs will be returned", but only with the intentions of voting FAIRLY on somebody's battle.
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Unread 03-20-2010, 09:25 PM   #3
 
Out Of Orderr
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In 1 ear, out the other...

Nah just playin man, thanks for posting this. I myself can't deny i have used the phrase "Fairs will be returned", but only with the intentions of voting FAIRLY on somebody's battle.
__________________
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F) Van Helsing (8)
T) Penns Ink (8)
A) JWall (16)
T) EJT (16)
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  #4  
Unread 03-20-2010, 09:32 PM
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Mentioned: 435 Post(s)
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Ranked Text Record
282 Won / 5 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
53 Won / 0 Lost
Default

well ..... now you know ..... how'd u feel if you were battling the biggest rider on the site and he dropped a thread saying "all fair votes will be returned "

without a set in stone rule we'd have to let that shit slide which would make a total mockery of the original pm for votes rule
__________________
.




Timeless ... so age don't count in the booth
When ya flow stay submerged in the fountain of youth
- Rakim


Quote:
Originally Posted by Just € View Post
Let me exPLAIN N DROP SOME KNOWLEDGE..Since uA's AN ALCOHOLIC!! you can SAY HE's PROPER SCOTTISH cuz he WAKES UP IN THE MORNINGS craving TASTES OF VODKA TONICS in his DAILY POT OF PORRIDGE laced with, BAILYS .... CHOCOLATE ORANGE? *shrugs*
Executive producer of sig quotes :UA



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Unread 03-20-2010, 09:32 PM   #4
 
UNKNOWN ARTIST
Estimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.34/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.34/10 stars
Ranked Text Record
282 Won / 5 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
53 Won / 0 Lost
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Voted: 0 audio / 0 text
Posts: 5,315
Mentioned: 435 Post(s)
Tagged: 36 Thread(s)


Default

well ..... now you know ..... how'd u feel if you were battling the biggest rider on the site and he dropped a thread saying "all fair votes will be returned "

without a set in stone rule we'd have to let that shit slide which would make a total mockery of the original pm for votes rule
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  #5  
Unread 03-20-2010, 09:33 PM
Brodie B
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Finally this is enforced haha. Idea's been out there for almost a year now. I'm still in favor of the be able to pm FVC members thing though. The people in the FVC are obviously honest enough to not just vote for the person who'd send otherwise they wouldn't have been mod approved for the list. I get pm's once or twice a week asking for a fair vote and I always vote unbiased. I don't really even go into the thread anymore because it's basically link spam and there's not a ton of motivation to dedicate a ton of time voting on pages of battles. There could even be a modify to the list where next to the name of the member it says whether they will accept pm's or not if anything as to not force every member into this idea if it's an issue. Just throwing this out there.

You can move this post from this thread if you want since it's kind of irrelevant.
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Unread 03-20-2010, 09:33 PM   #5
 
Brodie B
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Finally this is enforced haha. Idea's been out there for almost a year now. I'm still in favor of the be able to pm FVC members thing though. The people in the FVC are obviously honest enough to not just vote for the person who'd send otherwise they wouldn't have been mod approved for the list. I get pm's once or twice a week asking for a fair vote and I always vote unbiased. I don't really even go into the thread anymore because it's basically link spam and there's not a ton of motivation to dedicate a ton of time voting on pages of battles. There could even be a modify to the list where next to the name of the member it says whether they will accept pm's or not if anything as to not force every member into this idea if it's an issue. Just throwing this out there.

You can move this post from this thread if you want since it's kind of irrelevant.
 
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  #6  
Unread 03-20-2010, 09:41 PM
Out Of Orderr
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Ranked Text Record
31 Won / 17 Lost
Default

MASTR has a good point about PM'ing the FVC for battles getting slept on. The FVC are obviously trusted, i think they can be seen as another set of Mods, but obviously with less power.

Battles getting slept on is a BIG problem, and what are FVC and mods there for? Fixing problems, I.E - FVC take care of the problem where there have been hate votes, riding votes or just no votes at all.

But yeh, thats another story ^
__________________
A) RhetoriK (8)
F) Van Helsing (8)
T) Penns Ink (8)
A) JWall (16)
T) EJT (16)
O) Po A Fo (16)
U) Ohs (16)
R) _SIR_ (16)
N) Illimination (8)
Y) IAmFlow (8)
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Unread 03-20-2010, 09:41 PM   #6
 
Out Of Orderr
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Ranked Text Record
31 Won / 17 Lost
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Voted: 0 audio / 0 text
Posts: 1,107
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
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Default

MASTR has a good point about PM'ing the FVC for battles getting slept on. The FVC are obviously trusted, i think they can be seen as another set of Mods, but obviously with less power.

Battles getting slept on is a BIG problem, and what are FVC and mods there for? Fixing problems, I.E - FVC take care of the problem where there have been hate votes, riding votes or just no votes at all.

But yeh, thats another story ^
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  #7  
Unread 03-20-2010, 09:45 PM
Krhyme Killz
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,019
Mentioned: 582 Post(s)
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Estimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 stars
Ranked Audio Record
70 Won / 25 Lost
Estimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.1/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.1/10 stars
Ranked Text Record
344 Won / 124 Lost
Default

its like K became a mod...i've been BEGGING for this shit to be a rule....best shit i've seen in a while, man...good shit
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Unread 03-20-2010, 09:45 PM   #7
 
Krhyme Killz
Estimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 8.67/10 stars
Ranked Audio Record
70 Won / 25 Lost
Estimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.67/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.1/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 8.1/10 stars
Ranked Text Record
344 Won / 124 Lost
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Voted: 182 audio / 1147 text
Posts: 12,019
Mentioned: 582 Post(s)
Tagged: 46 Thread(s)


Default

its like K became a mod...i've been BEGGING for this shit to be a rule....best shit i've seen in a while, man...good shit
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-Solomon Grundy
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  #8  
Unread 03-20-2010, 09:47 PM
Step S Step S is on FIRE! 5+ wins in a row!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,705
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Send a message via MSN to Step S
Estimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 stars
Ranked Audio Record
14 Won / 10 Lost
Exclusive Audio Record
2 Won / 0 Lost

Estimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 stars
Ranked Text Record
305 Won / 71 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
15 Won / 5 Lost
Default

Mhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm, Co-Sign W/ Krhyme Here. Its Starting To Happen Again, And Yeh....Ay, I Forgot To Tell You Guys, You Should Add DUECE-DUECE To FVC....Whatchu' All Think?






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Unread 03-20-2010, 09:47 PM   #8
 
Step S Step S is on FIRE! 5+ wins in a row!
Estimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Audio: 7.24/10 stars
Ranked Audio Record
14 Won / 10 Lost
Exclusive Audio Record
2 Won / 0 Lost

Estimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.24/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.81/10 stars
Ranked Text Record
305 Won / 71 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
15 Won / 5 Lost
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Voted: 135 audio / 2047 text
Posts: 3,705
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)


Send a message via MSN to Step S
Default

Mhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm, Co-Sign W/ Krhyme Here. Its Starting To Happen Again, And Yeh....Ay, I Forgot To Tell You Guys, You Should Add DUECE-DUECE To FVC....Whatchu' All Think?






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  #9  
Unread 03-20-2010, 09:53 PM
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Ranked Text Record
282 Won / 5 Lost
Exclusive Text Record
53 Won / 0 Lost
Default

Nah .... the FVC can't be pm'd for votes regardless of how fair they are with their voting .... i don't know if you've noticed but half the site put "FVC" after their votes so it'd lead to far too much confusion .... so anybody pm'ing you to vote on battles should get a response telling them it's against the rules ... either that or a screenshot and an auto loss .... but as for the FVC thread being "basicaly like spam" .... no matter how bogged down with comments it is ... any time i've went through it to vote on battles there's only around 5 or so battles still actualy open for votes ..... so if everybody in the FVC looked though the thread it'd easily serve it's purpose
__________________
.




Timeless ... so age don't count in the booth
When ya flow stay submerged in the fountain of youth
- Rakim


Quote:
Originally Posted by Just € View Post
Let me exPLAIN N DROP SOME KNOWLEDGE..Since uA's AN ALCOHOLIC!! you can SAY HE's PROPER SCOTTISH cuz he WAKES UP IN THE MORNINGS craving TASTES OF VODKA TONICS in his DAILY POT OF PORRIDGE laced with, BAILYS .... CHOCOLATE ORANGE? *shrugs*
Executive producer of sig quotes :UA



Reply With Quote
Unread 03-20-2010, 09:53 PM   #9
 
UNKNOWN ARTIST
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Nah .... the FVC can't be pm'd for votes regardless of how fair they are with their voting .... i don't know if you've noticed but half the site put "FVC" after their votes so it'd lead to far too much confusion .... so anybody pm'ing you to vote on battles should get a response telling them it's against the rules ... either that or a screenshot and an auto loss .... but as for the FVC thread being "basicaly like spam" .... no matter how bogged down with comments it is ... any time i've went through it to vote on battles there's only around 5 or so battles still actualy open for votes ..... so if everybody in the FVC looked though the thread it'd easily serve it's purpose
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  #10  
Unread 03-20-2010, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by STEPHENiST_ View Post
Mhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm, Co-Sign W/ Krhyme Here. Its Starting To Happen Again, And Yeh....Ay, I Forgot To Tell You Guys, You Should Add DUECE-DUECE To FVC....Whatchu' All Think?






With all respect when i say this... You fuckin crazy? C'mon im more of a fair voter than him, and that boy got many dick riders.
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Unread 03-20-2010, 09:56 PM   #10
 
Out Of Orderr
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Estimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 0/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.86/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.86/10 starsEstimated Skill in Text: 7.86/10 stars
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31 Won / 17 Lost
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEPHENiST_ View Post
Mhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm, Co-Sign W/ Krhyme Here. Its Starting To Happen Again, And Yeh....Ay, I Forgot To Tell You Guys, You Should Add DUECE-DUECE To FVC....Whatchu' All Think?






With all respect when i say this... You fuckin crazy? C'mon im more of a fair voter than him, and that boy got many dick riders.
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